Lumber Yields

[Sundance]

I am getting ready to cut Nucs and hive bodies.

I was wondering if any of you have done the math for the best yields??

Like: 1 each 1 x 12 x 8 gives 3 sides, 1 end etc. Or are yields better on 10 footers??

Doing inner cover so if you have yields per 4 x 8 ply that would be great.

Thanks

[Todd Zeiner]

6ft material yields 1 box, 2 sides 2 ends
I watch for bargins at the lumber yards. If I end up with 8ft boards, then I just use the cut-off for another piece.

I've done the math on inner covers and based on the weight for shipping from kelly, I can't build them for what I can buy them cheaper. I have to figure my time cost's.

The boxes are definitly worth building.

[Sundance]

So multiples of 6 do the trick.........

Thanks!

[magnet-man]

Trying to figure out the best yield on lumber will drive you crazy!

[Walt McBride]

If your boxes are going to be finger jointed you need over 6'length to make a complete box.
Walt

[honeyman46408]

The last time I built deeps I watched for a sale at the lumber store "Menards" and bought 1x12x12 this pile had the best looking lumber ( price per ft about the same ) I use rabbet joints so I get 4 boxes from 12' board and I use the rips=1 1/4"x12' to make the edge piece for iner covers and a 4'x8' sheet of plywood makes several.

TIME U SAY

Honeyman46408=retired, everyday is Saterday=garage is warm=snow on the ground=cold outside OH RATS need to go to lumber yuard again

[Michael Bush]

Just make your cuts so the checks and splits end up in the scraps and cosole yourself with that. smile.gif

One nice thing about mediums is I can make them from one by eights. For nucs that will include a bottom, I don't even rip them down, I just nail a board on for the bottom. Same with long hives. I don't rip them, the extra space is the extra space at the bottom of the hive.

With deeps you're stuck with a one by twelve ripped down to 9 5/8". What a waste. I suppose if you make your own frames you could just buy one by tens and make the frames to fit, except they keep shrinking the width of one by tens. I notice, though, that many manufacturers are calling 9 1/2" boxes deeps now. Deep frames used to be 9 1/4" and many have now shrunk to 9 1/8" or less.

[east_stingray]

Great Michael, just great... now I'm going to have to go MEASURE my frames just to make sure I'm getting the right size boxes and foundation smile.gif . I had no idea there were that many different sizes of "deeps". Also, don't the bees build lots of burr comb if you don't rip your boards down to size? And I agree... what a waste... 1X12 lumber is expensive... how deep is a dadant super? I guess I can probably go look that up. I wonder if you can still get frames and foundation for those... maybe I should just go to all mediums.

[David Stewart]

Michael,
I know I've seen this posted before but I can't seem to find the answer looking through old posts. After reading the reasons/advantages you use all mediums, it makes sense to me to begin converting/standardizing to mediums. Where I hit a snag is looking at dadant's stuff- They only carry a deep HB so I'm guessing that what you refer to as medium is what they carry as a honey super? If so, I'm assuming the deep (largest) super?

Thanks,
David

[Pugs]

David,

A medium is 6 5/8 inches deep; at most places, if I remember correctly (but out here in Oregon, it is called a Western). Call it a hive or a super. The box depth is what we are looking at. So look for the box depth, and that should clue you in.

There was a thread about this, but I can't seem to find it with my searches. It is worth reading. Michael suggested that we use numbers instead of deep, medium, shallow, etc. to define the box size. Maybe we could call it the Michael Bush naming convention.

As Michael pointed out, some hive body makers are starting to cut the bodies a shade shallower that they should be which causes problems if you use frames which are the right size.

Pugs

[Michael Bush]

>Where I hit a snag is looking at dadant's stuff- They only carry a deep HB so I'm guessing that what you refer to as medium is what they carry as a honey super? If so, I'm assuming the deep (largest) super?


As Pugs pointed out, they are all boxes. Whether it is a super or a hive body depends on the use by the bees. Yes, mediums are always under the designation of supers, and deeps are always under the designation of hive bodies. But any box will do from the bee's perspective. You can use deeps for supers and shallows for hive bodies, but that's just not what people call them.

Mediums seem to stay pretty standard in size. The medium frames I've seen are all 6 1/4" and the medium boxes I've seen are all 6 5/8". It's the deeps that manufacurers cheat on. Probably because of the same problem we all face of having to buy two extra inches of lumber width to get 1/8". It seems to me, though, that they may as well either bite the bullet and all go to 9 1/2" or 9 1/4" or whatever and, as an industry, make it a standard, or else keep making them a full 9 5/8". This gradual cheating on the size makes a mess of burr comb for us and lack of interchangability anyway. At least we would all know what was what.

Mediums (6 5/8") are most commonly called mediums. For some reasons some people call them shallows, but a shallow is really 5 3/4" or 5 11/16". Sometimes a Medium is called an Illinois super or a 3/4" super.

One thing I've always loved about Walter T. Kelly's catalog is they give very specific measurements of all of their equipment and all of their foundation.

[Will]

Here's a very powerful program that will do the work for you. You can even set it up to minimize cost instead of waste if you can get a better price on a certain piece of lumber. I've used it for a couple of years. I can't imagine going without it now. I have no affiliation. But I like the program alot. http://cutlistplus.com/

Will

[Sundance]

Will........... Thanks for the link. The program looks wonderful.

I amgoing to run some data trough it tomorrow and see how it runs.

Bruce

[mwjohnson]

Just wanted to mention,I think the best approach to box building is just buy extra stuff,then cut around the inevitable crappy parts.
Do you have a local mill nearby? I get 1" rough sawn for $.30 bd/ft. right off the saw(E.white pine),air dry and you can save alot.Also,you can thickness to 7/8",and you CAN cut a 9&5/8" from a 10"roughsawn piece,but not from what they love to sell as "nominal".
That is about $2.50/deep but allow for some defects.
Just my $.02.

[Sundance]

Will,
Ran the free program and have hit a couple of snags.

Most likely due to me needing to read more.

The only way I can get it to calculate dimensional lumber is to designate the wood as Oak. Which is not a issue. However, I can't seem to figure out how to change the stock length. It is calculating 48" material. Not hard to extend this out to 96" for sure but a bit puzzling...

Nice stuff tho. If I was a cabinet builder I would definatly pop for the full version.

Bruce

[Will]

Cadetman,
Go to the raw materials tab, then go to dimensioned lumber. Right click and add new material. You can add several different sizes if you can get different lengths for different prices. Then in the project settings there is a tab for optimization. It will let you choose 3 different options: cost, waste, pro-rate cost. I play around w/ my inventory depending on what I want to build. I'm always trying to get the most bang for the buck w/ today's high lumber prices. Take some time to play around with it to minimize cost and waste, depending on what you're building. It's very slick.

Good luck,
Will

[Will]

[Sundance]

Thanks Will!! That did the trick.

I ran the maximum 5 piece parts list. 3 were hive body parts of 1x12 stock. 2 were top cover sides of 1x4 stock.

When I ran the layout I it only showed the 3 parts of 1x12 material. What did I screw up and why did the 1x4 parts not show.

Thanks again for your link to this valuable resource and help.

Bruce

[Will]

Bruce,
What I have done is to save separate parts as an individual project. I have a saved setup for a hive body. I have a saved setup for 5-frame nucs. Tops and bottoms should be separate also. When you set up to do a run of a certain item, you will have left over stock. Don't focus on that left over stock at the time. Set-up and do one type of item at a time. For instance, set up and run 50 hive bodies in a day. Next day, run something else. Or run something using your left over stock. The idea is to keep focused on a production run of an item. Not figuring out what you can make out of the leftovers at the same time. You'll waste valuable time changing saw set-ups etc. I'm probably preaching to the choir, but hopefully it helps someone.

Just some thoughts,
Will

[TwT]

I just built 4 reversable BB, 3 slatted Racks and 3 SBB, from lumber I bought from home depot,oh yeh plus a box of deck screws and it cost me $56.00. I couldn't have bought it that cheap and thats not even counting shipping. I did order some intercovers though.;}

[Sundance]

Good advice Will.

Inner covers are nearly $9.70 at Western Bee. A sheet of 1/4" Luaun (sp) plywood is cheap! You can get a bunch of covers from a 4x8 sheet.

I'm going to make the inner covers as well

[Hillbillynursery]

You get 12 bottom board out of a sheet of plywood with plenty to spare. The left over from the 1X12 makes the edge and it works good for the telescoping cover band.

I was chatting with Ribster in chat and it reminded me of something. I make a nucs with 2X6 and 2X10 end cuts I pick up at the building sites. A 2X6 is 5.5 inches which make a tight fit for a 4 frame nuc. A 2X10 is 9.5 inches and makes a 7 frame nuc if you use a bit narrower frame spacing(like some do for small cell). I normally have over enough 2X12s so rip them so they are the right width. With the added thickness of the 2X I get away with using 3/8 OSB pieces for the sides bottoms and tops. I run the 2X over the dado to make the interance 3/8 by 7/8(largest dado my saw will make). I use the dado to make the frame rest as well. Thought I throw this out as several use left over lumber to make their equipment.

[Ian]

>>With deeps you're stuck with a one by twelve ripped down to 9 5/8". What a waste.

>>That is about $2.50/deep but allow for some defects.

Go find your local mill. They will sure enough have rough cut lumber cheap as change. That is what I do. For about the same price as mwjohnson, $3.40 Canadian. Otherwise, by the time you buy the planed 1*12, and cut it to shape, you might as well just bought it from the local bee store and saved the bother.

[TwT]

I got my intercovers from mannlake for 6.95 each for 5 intercovers

http://www.mannlakeltd.com/catalog/page13.htm

I suppose I could build them cheaper but I was thinking about building a few screened intercover's to see what happens. and you know there a guy that has a saw mill not for from me and i got a planner, I'll got see what he says?

[Lively Bee's]

I buy 2x3 8'
Then I use use Luaun for the top.

So I end up with about 3 bucks for a top cover.