1000 Hives! How Possible?

[Kari]

As a newbie to beekeeping (1 year experience, 20 hives) I am startled that people manage to keep 1000 or more hives. How is this possible? I am currently working 20 hives and being run off my feet. I realize these are fulltimers, but still, there must be a huge difference between what I am doing and they are.

Any insights out there?

[iddee]

Hire employees

[Sundance]

The number of 1000 colonies per beekeeper is for management only. To my understanding this excludes extraction, bottling, etc.

The larger colonies per beekeeper also assume equipment like forklifts, etc.

To run a 1000 colony operation you will need help with those tasks.

[Michael Bush]

I have seen two people (partners, husband & wife etc.) can keep up with 1000 hives, but that would be a full time job, not migratory and they probably don't keep the kind of track you do with a hobby. It's about the numbers. You just give them all a once over in the spring and maybe feed. Pile the supers on later in the spring. Harvest in the summer. Equalized, split, feed and requeen in the fall. You don't open the hives more than a few times a year and you only really go through them maybe onece a year and if it looks like something is wrong.

Basically, you take a lot of shortcuts and don't spend nearly as much time per hive.

[Gregg]

Yes, the difference between a hobbyist and a large commercial outfit is huge. It is quite common in ND to find bee companies of 5,000+ hives. I work in the Spring making nucs for an outfit that has 10,000+ hives. More hives = more mechanization. The amount of mechanization in an extracting system for a large oufit is truly amazing (to me at least), even compared to my small setup for 400 hives. And as iddee said, more hives = employees, and finding people to work bees is becoming increasingly difficult, which is why many big outifits are searching globally for worker bees.

[Barry Digman]

Can you imagine running 40,000 hives? I think Bell was the largest in the nation in addition to being the largest in Florida.


"Hackenberg and others in the business said the state's largest beekeeper, Horace Bell of DeLand, sold his more than 40,000 hives to companies in California this year and went out of business. That automatically reduces Florida's 200,000 bee colonies by 20 percent."

[Barry Digman]

and finding people to wrok bees is becoming increasingly difficult, which is why many big outifits are searching globally for worker bees.There are about a bazillion per day coming in to New Mexico. How many do ya need?

[Kari]

So what about swarming? IS there any management for that in these situations or is it simply add supers, hope for the best and take your lumps?

[Gregg]

Most commercial outfits (that I know anyway) split there bees pretty hard in the Spring in order to keep there hive numbers where they're at, so swarming isn't probably too big of a problem. They certainly do lose some swarms, but generally don't have time to deal with them very much. It's all about percentages with a big outfit, and trying to make the most efficient use of time.

[Nick Noyes]

You just have to get past the naming of every hive and go to work. Forklifts,modern extractors,etc. help but you still have to work the bees.

[HarryVanderpool]

Mr. Richard Adee runs 50,000 colonies.
He did a wonderful presentation on his outfit at the O.S.B.A. conference a few years back.
One thing that I will always remember was a slide of semi's with 480 hives each, lined up along the highway for as far as the eye could see! WOW!!!
:cool:

[Brian Suchan]

Mr adee may own 50,000 plus colonies of bees but someone else runs then. 1000 + colonies is what most commercial beekeepers run anymore.

[nursebee]

Adee said 75K last week.

[Sundance]

Hats off to the big guys......... I am going to stay small (450 to 500 colonies) and keep the labor in the family.

[Sourwood]

>>>>>I am going to stay small (450 to 500 colonies)<<<<<<<<

Gee sundance, I thought my 10 hive management was considered small. I must be microscopic in the big picture. smile.gif

[Sundance]

Sourwood........ I have a ways to go to get there. Have 36 now and hope to have 150 to 200 by next fall.

[Hill's Hivery]

WOW, you guys are scarin' me. My wife was "concerned" when I captured the last swarm bringin my hive totals to 4!

Can't imagine if I came home and told her I was going to 100+ hives.
:D ;)

[Sundance]

Go for it Hill's Hivery!! With a handle like that, how can you not? Give up that day job, strap on some bibs and get to it. smile.gif

[iddee]

Yeah, go for it, but learn to cook first. I think you may have to.

[Susan]

You work and work. Between splits, honey and requeening, looking for locations, maintance on equipment, meeting etc. Oct 03, brought our first 500 and now up to 2700 and that it. We work all te time. Adee got us started, we hauled bees for them for years. Very nice family. Sometimes wish I was still hauling bees. We have 2 part timers that help, hope next year to have 2 full timers also.

[Aspera]

Susan,

I used to live in Tulare/Visalia. Where in the valley are you located?

Hal

[Joel]

You can make a pretty reasonable living on about 300-400 hives if you find a good niche. Once you get past 50 though it is pretty much like any job (except one you really like) and like any agricuture fraught with disaster potential. It really is the harvest and extraction that are the back breakers timewise. There are milestones in numbers where you come to the realization that you will have much less time per hive/ less harvest per hive with a higher net from the numbers. You expect to loose hives that as a hobbyist you would have noticed problems and requeened earlier, that swarmed 4 times or get dropped and crushed on the way to the trailer in the middle of a rainy night. It is still a labor of love!

[jalal]

300 hives and all duties of those hives is a part-time job.

you get to where you don't slam through every frame, every time.

if you want to do more, great, you can.

for me, unless i did get a partner, i'd stick to filling my own semi, once.

[uncletom]

Just out of curiosity, what does being a worker bee for one of these outfits pay?

tom

[Sundance]

Up here they pay $8.00 to $10.00 per hour. That is why migrants are the primary labor source for the big operations.

[Susan]

Hal,
We live in the Springville area.When did you move back east?

[Joel]

Susan, I like your post script!
I think the major changes in our management as we have increase numbers involve 2 areas, preparation and hive inspection. I have my yard work planned well in advance and have everything ready and organized en-mass before I leave home. I also buy raw materials in as assembled a stage or in premixed form etc. to save time. I have a plan of how the management will be done and and a clear idea of about how long it will take. When I run into an unexpected problem I work through my program and return to deal with the issue within the next 24 hours to avoid derailing the needs of the yard as a whole to help the one. It is very systematic. Secondly I seldom open a healthy hive. My inspections, for the most part, are done before the first puff of smoke by walking through the yard, observing entrance activity for incoming pollen, population comparison, signs of problems (chalk brood mummies, wingless bees, low population, etc) and then opening any hive that's not at the level with everyone else. I do occaisonal mite/disease inspections where I'll pick 2 hives in a yard and tear them right down, check mite counts and look for disease. I usually do manipulations (add supers, combine 2 queen units, pull honey and such) at one time and then do problem mangement (requeening, treatment, equalization and such) at another time. I keep my bee bucket which has 5 of everything in it do do spot repairs, capture queens, seal a pollen trap and such.

[Aspera]

Susan,

I moved back East in 2002 after working with cattle for a bit. I still miss the mountains and that CA produce, honey, wine etc. PA is my home, but I think everyone should have the opportunity to smell an orange grove in full bloom (beats the heck out of a dairy farm).

[TX Ashurst]

<<everyone should have the opportunity to smell an orange grove in full bloom >>

When I worked on a citrus ranch I used to wonder if I actually gained weight just from breathing, because there was so much nectar in the air.

I tried keeping bees in the orchard for a while, but the pesticides kept their worker numbers so low the hives never prospered.

[Chef Isaac]

Its getting harder to find locations to keep bees, at least up here in Washinton State. When I was looking to find ap lace to keep my bees, I got a lot of "No"s by farmers. I was suprised since they.. or shall I say should know about pollination and increases they can make.

[uncletom]

$8 to $10? Hmmm I guess I wont be quit'n my day job and head'n west to work the bees anytime soon! smile.gif

thanks

tom

[suttonbeeman]

Susan,
I'll have to take issue with you about the Adee's. While the family may be nice, Richard is all for himself and to hell with the industry. His organization (american honey producers) has been pretty much under his control and many leaders misinformed. It has been pretty much his way with no other options. I dont want to get into a mud slinging contest and while he has done some things I agree with he does not understand marketing, the comsumer and doestn care what happens to the industry as long as Richard is King or at least that is my opinion and I have very good reasons/evidence to feel like I do. Rick

[suttonbeeman]

Now for managing 500 colonies. I currantly manage 500+ colonies with no hired help. My wife does bottle some as we retail it all. I migrate from Ky to Fl and this year plan to go to California to almonds. In addition to the bees I run a auction company and 300 acres with 300 head of cattle. I can tell if a hive is queenless by the sound of the colony when I crack the lid and smell foulbrood when I open it also. You learn to be able to recognize problems quickly. I spent more time with 50 colonies 20 yrs ago than I do now with 500. Also you learn to make splits quickly (I made 140 splits in 3 hrs this past winter in Fl.) I usually can see the queen if she is on frame in less than 15 seconds and sometimes even before I get it all the way out of hive. You learn to recognize problems, bee population, and notice the little things at a glance. Comes with years of expierence and paying attention to whats going on when you are in a hive. Rick

[Trevor Mansell]

Horace Bell is a very fascinating person to talk to. Its also amazing that he ran 40,000+ hives out of his shop.I heard at one time he was up to 75,000. He ran a truley commercial operation they would bring in the whole hive ,truck loads of them . Take the hive totaly apart , the honey would go one way and the brood another. they would take three of four frames of brood ,and a scoop full of bees and just make a new hive. So he was constantly turning one double into three or four hives. If you ever see his place you could just imagine what it must have looked like in full operation.

[Bob Harrison]

Suttonbeeman,
Wow 140 splits in three hours. Takes me three hours just to get the equipment ready to do 140 splits!

Trevor,
Horace and I grew up together and have been lifelong friends. We grew up a mile from each other in DeLand, Florida. I have learned many beekeeping tips from Horace. I believe Horace may have learned a few beekeeping tips from me also. You can't believe everything written in bee books is a tip I learned early on from Horace Bell!

I have been asked many times to write the Horace Bell Honey co. story for the bee magazines. Maybe I will one of the days but the story has not yet ended even though Horace Bell claims he has retired from beekeeping. Horace also claimed to have retired in 1998.

The next Horace Bell caper (in the works) will shock the beekeeping world and perhaps be a subject for an article!

Thoughts about my close and dear friend:

Horace Bell is beekeepings recluse. He leads a very private lifestyle. He has a close circle of friends and rarely talks on the phone. He reads the internet but never posts. He has forgot more beekeeping knowledge than many commercial beekeepers ever had. He can manage a huge operation with over fifty employees from memory and with notes up keeps on a small pocket notebook. When I visit (twice since the first of the year) he goes to bed early and is in his office hours before daylight. Our days of beekeeping discussions usually start around 4 am and last for 14-15 hours.

[Joel]

I'd have to agree with Rob, 3 hours for 140 splits is pretty incredible. That's less than 3 minutes a split. I would like to hear some of the shortcuts. I assume you use either slender or california queen cages, don't locate queens and already have your equipment set up. What else? Are you using nuc boxes?