some advice please?

[Rooster4473]

Ok I have one hive that was started in April. They have a full deep of mostly brood a 2/3 full medium mostly brood and a 1/2 full shallow mosty honey.

I see the queen everytime I check the hive and there are tons of eggs and larve and capped brood.

There already seems to be a ton of bees. I guess they did fine while I was gone. I'm not used to so many bees so they kinda freak me out, although they don't seem hostile.

Anyway today I noticed some funny looking cells on the bottoms/sides of some frames. They seem to be mainly on the edges of the frames that have the wax foundation in them. They do not seem to be overly large, but they do seem to be facing down. I can't figure out if they are swarm cells, or if they just look odd cuz of where they are. Non of them are capped.

I thought it was unlikely for a first year hive to swarm. Does it sound like they are gonna swarm? Can I split the hive, or would that hurt them? Or should I just keep adding supers? Or should I just remove a frame of brood or two and replace it with bare foundation? Or are they ok and I'm just crazy?

[bjerm2]

I bet they are peanut shaped too! http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif Looks like they are going to swarm on you. If you have some boxes I would split them 2 ways. Take original queen and move her off to one stand. No queen cells in this one. If there are some distroy them. Take some brood and some honey. Next shake all the bees into this box. Now set up another box where the old hive was and place a frame with queen cells in there with brood, honey and pollen. Each of these new hives should have an exta supper put on top of them. Have fun.
Dan http://www.beesource.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Michael Bush]

If the mouth of the cells are pointed straight down and they are peanut shaped they are queen cells. Drone cells can look pretty odd, but the mouth or the cap is still horizontal.

Sounds like you have a swarm to head off.

[Rooster4473]

It is better to order a new queen, right?

[Terri]

Not necessarily. Lots of people in Kansas just let the bees rear their own. I would guess that it is about 50-50. Since money is usually tight in my household, I just keep the $10 in my pocket and I have let my splits rear their own.

Besides, I am a newbie and it is easier to let the bees take care of it.

Now, if I lived in an area with Africanized bees, I would want to buy a queen. No telling WHAT drones a virgin queen will mate with! But, since the bees out here are all ordinary honeybees, it seems to work well to let them rear their own.

Now, some people out here like to have a certain type of queen, usually either a Carniolan or an Italian. Personally, as long as the hive is gentle, healthy, and productive I don't care about the type.

[This message has been edited by Terri (edited June 29, 2004).]

[honeybeesonly]

first, i'm jealous! i too started over this year after the southern california wild fires took all my hives last year. i got my package bees in April and i've got one deep nearly full at this point with very little honey in the super above. we've been suffering with a poor nectar flow and i'm hoping this is what is causing the slow population growth and honey development. could be weak queens but i'm not jumping to that conclusion right now.

it does sound like you have a swarm developing. good luck and let us know what you end up doing.

ken

------------------
Good friends are sweet as honey. Winnie the Pooh
http://honeybeesonly.com

[Michael Bush]

If they are about to swarm, which queen cells hanging off the bottom of frames usually indicate, then you don't need a queen. You are about to have too many queens. You need to split the hive. Maybe recombine after swarm season is over or not if they are strong enough to make it on their own and you want another hive.

[Rooster4473]

I didn't see any capped cells at all, they all were still empty and I didn't see any eggs in the cells either. So about how long do I have, they aren't gonna swarm tomorrow are they?

I thought it was better to buy a laying queen?

[Michael Bush]

If there are no eggs, then I wouldn't count on anything, but make sure they have room and check again in a few days.

[Michael Bush]

What would buying a laying queen do? If they have made up their mind to swarm requeening probably won't stop them. Splitting them probably will stop them. But if there aren't swarm cells with larvae in them, then there aren't swarm cells yet. If there are no eggs and open brood then my guess is they already either superceded or swarmed. What are the cells on the bottoms of the bars like? New and white? Dark? Are they papery? Are they waxy? If they are waxy and just round they are just cups. If they are papery and empty then they are left from queens that already emerged.

[MountainCamp]

A queen cell is significantly larger than a drone cell, which are slightly larger than a worker cell.

They will often build drone cells around the edges of the frames and on the bottoms of frames and between frames.

These cells sometimes may angle slightly downward.

Queens cells without a any question hang downward.

It sounds like you have been checking your hives on a regular basis and have seen, the queen, eggs and brood along.

If your hive had swarmed, there would have been a time period of about 2 weeks where there would not have been any eggs, and hence a break in the brood cycle. This would show up as a lack of Worker brood about 3 - 5 weeks after the swarm.

If there has not been a break in the brood cycle, they have not swarmed. This does not mean they won't.

If you are thinking of making a split at this time of year in PA, I would buy a queen. Letting them raise their own queen earlier in the season if fine, but it is getting late.

The 25 days or so break in the brood cycle will set them back. It will also be about 44 days till this queen will contribute foragers to the work force to collect winter stores.

[This message has been edited by MountainCamp (edited June 30, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by MountainCamp (edited June 30, 2004).]

[Rooster4473]

I know they have not swarmed yet I have been checkn them every week, except the two I was away. But the day I checked them after I got home I saw my marked queen.

>>What would buying a laying queen do? If they have made up their mind to swarm requeening probably won't stop them. Splitting them probably will stop them<<

I was thinking about splitting them, but don't want them to raise their own queen.

The main thing is that I am still unsure if the cells are swarm cells or not. They do look big and like the face down, but they don't look like a peanut to me....I figure the best way to solve this is tomorrow I'll take a picture or two and put in a link and let you all look at em and tell me what they are. I really don't want to split if I don't have to.

[newbee 101]

I was told that they build these and then tear them down sometimes. I checked my hive a few days ago and saw 1 or 2 myself. Nothing in them as far as I could see. I have 2 deeps now and there is plenty of room in there, even though my bees have doubled or more since MAY 6.

[Rooster4473]

Ok here are some pictures. Please let me know what they are of.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rooster040473/album?.dir=/b2f5

The first three pics I am unsure if they are swarm cells. I believe that the fourth picture are a cluster of drone cells, right?

Also let me know if the link doesn't work.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by Rooster4473 (edited July 01, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Rooster4473 (edited July 01, 2004).]

[Michael Bush]

One two and three are just queen cups, unless they have larvae in them I wouldn't worry about them.

Four, I can't see so well, but I'm guessing it's just drone, from what I can see.

[Rooster4473]

Are queen cups the same as swarm cells?

Do the bees build these cups and not use them or are they eventually gonna use 'em?

Should I destroy the cups?

Would I be better just splitting the hive now?

[This message has been edited by Rooster4473 (edited July 01, 2004).]

[Michael Bush]

>Are queen cups the same as swarm cells?

No. Not unless there are larvae in them.

>Do the bees build these cups and not use
them

All the time.

>or are they eventually gonna use 'em?

Probably not, but maybe.

>Should I destroy the cups?

I never do. They don't mean anything unless they put larvae in them.

>Would I be better just splitting the hive now?

Why? If there are no eggs or larvae in the cups they are meaningless. They are not planning on swarming until there is larvae in the cups and there may NEVER be larvae in the cups.

[Rooster4473]

Ok I got it, thanks http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif