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Fusion_power
12-11-2006, 04:56 PM
I haven't seen a thread like this in a long time so maybe it will be useful to others. When I first started keeping bees about 35 years ago, I was a total neophyte at using a smoker. My first smoker was a small Root galvanized job that just didn't hold enough fuel to be really useful. Non-the-less, I would get it going with old cotton cloths and pieces of punk wood and could really raise a cloud of smoke. I would smoke the bees so much that there was no way on earth they could sting me. It didn't help that my veil was a homemade job made of screen wire and an old felt hat. I was 12 years old and thought I was uptown and high class.

I graduated to a large Kelley smoker when I went to a beekeepers meeting and saw how much easier it was to keep one lit. Pine straw was the smoker fuel of choice and is what I still use. I met a queen breeder, Glenn Fowler, who lived about 30 miles away and spent quite a bit of time at his place learning to handle bees properly. Slow steady movements, smoke at the right time, watch the bees for cues when more is needed, all were learned. I bought a few queens because Glenn Fowler was an excellent queen breeder and the stock he was using were top of the line Italians.

Now I'm a bit older and have handled colonies all over the scale from ultra gentle (the ones sitting on my front porch right now) to ultra hot (100 stings in less than a minute). I've helped a commercial beekeeper, raised my own queens numerous times, and produced a honey crop year in and year out so long as I had live colonies. My bees were knocked for a loop in 1988 by tracheal mites. I bought some colonies from a "leave it alone" beekeeper and transferred them to my equipment. Buckfast queens took care of the tracheal mite problem. Then Varroa hit in 1994 and I lost all but 3 colonies. I treated for Varroa and built back up again to 20 colonies which is about as many as I care to run.

The first and foremost lesson about smokers is learning what to use as fuel. As mentioned above, I use pine straw, but fully dried out pine straw burns fast and hot and makes a smoke that is disagreeable to the bees. I gather fresh green rye grass to mix with the pine straw in a ratio of about 10 parts pine straw and 1 part grass. Most of the grass is in a clump at the top of the smoker where the smoke has to filter through it on the way out of the smoker. This keeps the smoke cool and reduces the acrid character quite a bit. I also keep a few old pieces of heavy comb to drop in the smoker. This has much more effect on the bees than pine straw alone. It takes one small wad of wax about an inch in diameter to a large smoker full of pine straw. I gather up a plastic bag of pine straw when the weather is warm and the straw is dry. Don’t make the mistake of trying to light wet pine straw. It does NOT burn.

I light the smoker by putting a small handfull of pine straw in the smoker. I use one of the long snout butane camp lighters to light the straw in the smoker. A few vigorous puffs and the straw in the smoker will be in flames. Add another large handfull of straw mixed with a few strands of green grass and continue puffing. When its smoking freely, finish filling the smoker with straw and top off with a wad of green rye grass. Puff 10 or 20 times more to ensure it is burning properly.

There is an art to opening and working a colony of bees. The first rule is to puff one or two puffs of smoke across the entrance to disrupt the guard bees. After a minute or so, gently lift the cover a few inches and blow a couple of puffs across the top of the frames and inside of the cover. Finish removing the cover and blow one more puff of smoke across the top before removing the first frame. Now its time to watch the bees. Remove one frame at a time. I like to put them on the cover which I place upside down next to my hive stand. I stack the frames in reverse order to the way they are removed. When the bees start showing mostly heads looking up at me from between the frames and when I hear them start a peculiar high pitched buzzing, I send one or two more puffs of smoke across the tops of the frames. Its not forced into the hive, just across the top where it sends the workers scurrying off. I look at the stack of frames on the cover and if the bees are similarly showing their heads, send a puff of smoke their way. Using smoke carefully and deliberately, I finish removing and inspecting frames and then re-assemble the colony in proper order. I rarely use more than a dozen puffs of smoke to go through a single brood chamber. Twenty puffs is enough for most double brood chamber colonies.

So what do you use for smoker fuel? And how do you handle that colony of “Africanized bees”?

Fusion

odfrank
12-11-2006, 05:24 PM
Pine needles,and recently I found a pile of chips from a tree truck that was pine needles and pine chips, works great. Easy to light and stays lighted, but needs to be replenished every 1/2 hour. And I go home smelling like a forest fire.

tecumseh
12-12-2006, 05:10 AM
well to answer your first question... punk wood and burlap from rendering wax.

and your second question. I kilz 'em and quite quickly.

BjornBee
12-12-2006, 06:27 AM
I like cedar chip and pine shavings. The straight cedar chips seem to burn too hot, so I use a mixture. I buy them in large bags from tractor supply.

Hobie
12-12-2006, 01:26 PM
I've been using old corn cobs, but have a bit of trouble getting them to light and stay lit. It may be that I am inexperienced, but I will blame it on the fuel. ;)

spunky
12-12-2006, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the retrospective post.

Jeffrey Todd
12-12-2006, 02:16 PM
tecumseh,
as to killing a colony of africanized bees; what is your method? I have done a number of colony removals and have had the good fortune to not run into an africanized colony, but when that day comes, I would like to have a proven method of effectively dealing with them. (especially one that results in as few stings as possible for anyone or anything in the vicinity)

Thanks,

Jeffrey

Oh, and for a good smoke, I like using cedar mulch (in Texas, we call it cedar, but it is actually Juniper, I am told) that is free for the taking or making.

tecumseh
12-13-2006, 05:25 AM
jeffrey sezs:
Oh, and for a good smoke, I like using cedar mulch (in Texas, we call it cedar, but it is actually Juniper, I am told) that is free for the taking or making.

tecumseh replies:
some folks call it ash juniper jeffrey. I have always thought the perfect smoke was one that is cool and not harsh.

sent you a pm on the question of killin' bees.

Ron Young
12-13-2006, 11:08 AM
Has anyone used the bloom pods from a Magnolia Tree as fuel? Are there any problems with it? The smoke has a somewhat pleasant smell to it, as much as smoke can anyway.

paintingpreacher
12-14-2006, 08:14 PM
I have heard of using dried cow pies, but I think I will stick with the pine needles. They seem to work best for me.

tecumseh
12-15-2006, 04:49 AM
dry dung works quite well... not exactly the best smellin' stuff, but it does stay lit (when very dry).

sierrabees
12-15-2006, 05:07 AM
WOW! Some of you have developed smoking bees beyond being just a tool for beekeeping into an art form by itself.

honeyman46408
12-15-2006, 05:41 AM
"dry dung works quite well... not exactly the best smellin' stuff, but it does stay lit (when very dry)."

I just dont think I want to put that flavor in my honey tongue.gif

Fusion_power
12-15-2006, 08:43 AM
I've heard of smoking cigarettes.

I've heard of smoking grass (marijuana).

I've even heard of smoking guns!!!!!

But I never thought about smoking bees.
with cowpies!!!!

Laugh, we need some humor on this board.

Fusion

[ December 15, 2006, 09:44 AM: Message edited by: Fusion_power ]

Ishi
12-15-2006, 11:30 PM
Have to agree with Tecumesh they work very Good if you forgit to bring enough fuel. Also work good on the top of a duch oven. ( makes you take the lid off gently )

tecumseh
12-16-2006, 03:45 AM
fusion power sezs:
Laugh, we need some humor on this board.


tecumseh replies:
ah a well balanced sence of humor does suggest a certain level of mental wellness and I have always believed that a good laugh was good for the soul.

but you are exactly right fusion....

rainesridgefarm
12-16-2006, 05:33 AM
I love old blue jeans cut up in 1 inch strips. When I wash them for the last time I do not use any soap. I do put in some rosemary oil in the rinse cycle so they smell great when burning. Stays lit and nice white smoke last about 2 hours on a big smoker

BjornBee
12-16-2006, 06:01 AM
My most important smoker fuel....really isn't smoker fuel, but can be used in a pinch, (but not after). On certain occassions its the most important "tool" in my truck. I use it primarily for another use, and after this first use, I strongly reccomend not using it as a smoker fuel, although some have already admitted to its use. And this handy (Yes, used by lefties or righties, but mainly used in the broader middle)....is my handy, dandy, saved me many times in remote locations...my roll of always stocked in my truck.....toilet paper!

tecumseh
12-16-2006, 06:19 AM
bjorn provides us with a bit of a giggle... and right on time.

purrrrrrrr.......

sierrabees
12-16-2006, 07:52 AM
Jeffrey Todd

<as to killing a colony of africanized bees; what is your method? I have done a number of colony removals and have had the good fortune to not run into an africanized colony, but when that day comes, I would like to have a proven method of effectively dealing with them-especially one that results in as few stings as possible for anyone or anything in the vicinity.>


Come back at night with a good sized chunk of Dry Ice and push it in through any openings you can find, then seal everything up with duct tape. After 24 hours you should be able to take the duct tape off and clean up the mess with no companions from the hive bothering you.

paintingpreacher
12-16-2006, 08:21 PM
Maybe we could soak the cow pies in rosemary oil. sure wouldn't hurt.........

peggjam
12-16-2006, 08:29 PM
I use good ole baler twine, after it has been used for it's first purpose of course. It's cheap, usually free, and produces a nice cool smoke that lasts along time with just the occasional puff. As far as AFB, killum....killum all :D :D :D .

kc in wv
12-17-2006, 05:58 PM
Bailer twine, burlap, pine straw, leaves in a pinch, chestnut burrs again in a pinch, but my favorite has to be sweet gum seed pods.
The chest nut burrs produced lots of cool smoke but didn't last long.

When I first tried sweet gum seed pods I started them in the smoker and then packed the smoker full of pods. I walked off and let the smoker set for an hour and it still was smoking

Laurence Hope
12-18-2006, 12:08 AM
I read somewhere that sweet gum pods make good smoker fuel and mentioned it to my wife. She collected 5 buckets full from our tree. I will give them a whirl next time out.

Ron Young
12-18-2006, 06:22 PM
I had an opportunity to try some gum balls. I made an small insert out of a small vegie can from the store, packed it full and placed a larger can over it with just one hole in the top. It smoked for 35 minutes and it was out in the open, and not near as large as a smoker.

I would like to know about the magnolia bloom pods. The smoke really well when dry, I just don't want to use anything that will harm the bees. I had read on another post that corn cobs would effectively kill a large number of bees. I was really glad to have read that. I would like to know if there are any other known things that kill bees when used in a smoker.

George Fergusson
12-18-2006, 06:58 PM
I've tried a lot of different fuels and have settled on free dried cellulose in whatever convenient and readily burnable form I can find it smile.gif

tecumseh
12-19-2006, 03:01 AM
mr young sezs:
I had read on another post that corn cobs would effectively kill a large number of bees.

tecumseh politely ask:
where did you read this mr young. would anyone care to speculate or state a reason why burning corn cobs would be fatal to honeybees?????

doesn't really sound right to me.

redbee
12-19-2006, 08:33 AM
Here in S.D.where one thing we have is lots of corn== cobs.Corn cobs have been use as smoke fuel for many years,bee kill? never seen it.We also soak the cobs in used motor oil which makes a heavy cool smoke.

Dave W
12-19-2006, 08:56 AM
Just for a "polite" black cat smile.gif

Corncob (Zea mays) smoke (from white corn) killed 71.4% of bees within 18 days and 100% within 5 days in tests by USDA-ARS (Eischen, 2002)
www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2004/04/M4016/M4016.html (http://www.edpsciences.org/articles/apido/abs/2004/04/M4016/M4016.html) - Accessed 7/13/06.

Dave W
12-19-2006, 09:01 AM
I would like more info about the use of "used motor oil".

Brand?
Weight?
How used?
How long used?
Why changed?
smile.gif

George Fergusson
12-19-2006, 06:05 PM
>doesn't really sound right to me.

You're both right. Perusing the most-interesting link Dave W posted, it does in fact appear that corn cob smoke will kill bees, but likely not when used in the fashion smoke is typically used in a hive. The tests in the paper involved enclosing bees in jars for 2 minutes with a few puffs of various kinds of smoke. Pretty intense exposure. Of course, many other kinds of smoke didn't kill any bees at all under the same kind of exposure... so clearly at least according to that study, something about corn cob smoke ain't good for bees, though in the concentration used when smoking a hive it probably wouldn't be noticable. Guess I won't try it though.

Oh yeah... probably won't try the used motor oil either smile.gif

George-

[ December 19, 2006, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: George Fergusson ]

hummingberd
12-19-2006, 07:01 PM
has anyone tried peanut shells? My husband loves throwing in the wood cook stove in the winter! They burn really well... in the stove of course. Just curious what people think!

tecumseh
12-20-2006, 06:05 AM
thanks ya' dave... slap, slap.... I needed that... (a very dated reference to a shaving lotion advertisement).

quite curious in that cresote bush seems to be fairly effective in this study to reduce adult trachael mites. perhaps some of you folks should start burning some old railroad ties.

used motor oil in smoker fuel... ain't going to 'go there' either.

iddee
12-20-2006, 08:30 AM
Tec, I have a very large wood fired water stove that builds up creosote quite regularly. You are more than welcome to come and remove all the creosote you want from it at any time. :eek: :D

Dave W
12-20-2006, 08:54 AM
You guys start cleaning chimneys and puffin smoke from motor oil and railroad ties, and you'll have the "all natural" folks so fired up, they will probably burn "BeeSource". smile.gif

Shame on you, for spoiling Christmas!

iddee
12-20-2006, 08:58 AM
Dave W., BAH! HUMBUG!.....

Merry Christmas to you and yours.

tecumseh
12-21-2006, 04:35 AM
dave w sezs:
You guys start cleaning chimneys and puffin smoke from motor oil and railroad ties

tecumseh thinks positive:
probably give ya' one hell of a buzzzzz... and one hell of a headache.

and most definitely a merry christmas to all....