Swarm Lure Mystery

[Troutsqueezer]

Given that I am still fairly new to beekeeping (4 hives for 2 years, I figure with each passing year my chances increase for one or more of my hives to swarm, if they haven't already. Wishing to be prepared, I set up two 5-frame nucs in various places around the property this winter and then set about to heading down to the local bee store for some sort of lure.

I've read on this forum that Nasonov pheromone or lemon grass works well. I asked the storekeep for some Nasonov and he led me to a refrigerator and handed me a small brown envelope containing two small v-shaped vials, each tightly capped. He explained that he didn't know much about swarm capturing lures (is he in the right business?) but handed me a small printed sheet of instructions and said that should suffice.

Well, I got home, read it and suffice it didn't. Grabbed a beer and read the instructions some more but still the synapse gaps weren't transmitting signals. Wife was no help.

Here's what's confusing: The instructions say to keep the pheromone in the refrigerator until used then take the envelope and staple it to the inside of the hive. There are several problems associated with this:

1. The vials are capped. Is this stuff so strong it doesn't even need to be opened up or maybe spread out onto something and then placed in the hive?

2. I asked for one vial but the storekeep said they only come two to a package. If they stay in the package, why two?

I don't even know for sure what I have is Nasonov since there is no labeling on the package.

My suspicion is that these instructions are not for the product I was sold. This is why I rely on getting most of my information from this forum.

Anybody got any ideas?

[wade]

I don't know if this will help or not.

I was discouraged when I saw the price of swarm lure at my local bee store- and its for just one trap. I looked on the ingredients and its mostly lemongrass oil.

I recently went to the local organic food store in accordance with the info on this forum, and bought a small vial of lemongrass oil for about the same price as one helping of the fancy lure at the bee store. This vial will last for years, on many traps.

I used lemon pledge last year and it worked wonderfully. The lemongrass oil smells like lemon pledge. If your stuff smells lemony then its probably very similar to the other products I've described.

Last year I used old comb, old boxes, and lemon pledge. There's no way it could've worked better. I'll admit I'm not sure which of the variables contributed the most, but its easy enough to just use those same variables again.

Its probably worth it for you, to go ahead and use the expensive stuff you already bought because its probably proven to work. But next time before you shell out the money, try the lemon pledge if you already have some in the cabinet, or buy a little vial of lemongrass oil.

[George Fergusson]

>I don't even know for sure what I have is Nasonov since there is no labeling on the package.

It is most likely plain old unadulterated lemon grass oil. I'm not aware of anyone that actually extracts and sells whatever the Nasonov gland emits. Next time save yourself some money and buy a bottle of lemon grass oil from your local health food store. I got about an ounce or so for around $5 which should last years.

I've never tried Lemon Pledge but I've heard it works. Wade sure thinks so smile.gif

I forgot to mention, I too bought one of those swarm lure envelopes the first season I kept bees and I too was confused/confounded by the sheet of printed instructions that came with it, so don't feel bad smile.gif I finally figured out that the vials have a tiny hole in them that allows the scent to escape and it passes right through the paper envelope.

Cheers,

George-

[ February 07, 2007, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: George Fergusson ]

[Jim Fischer]

> 1. The vials are capped. Is this stuff so
> strong it doesn't even need to be opened up
> or maybe spread out onto something and then
> placed in the hive?

The pheromone lure vials are capped with a
specific sort of plastic that allows the
volatile chemicals to migrate through the
"pores" in the plastic. One should NEVER
open the vials, as the liquid will evaporate
far too quickly. (That's why Bee-Quick comes
in pretty bottles made from a very high-tech
crystal-clear polymer that costs an arm and
a leg - we do as much as we can to stop
chemical migration through plastic.)

> 2. I asked for one vial but the storekeep said
> they only come two to a package. If they stay
> in the package, why two?

Dunno... but putting ONE vial in a paper envelope
(bank deposit envelopes work fine, and happen to
be free at any ATM...) and stapling the envelope
to the side of one's bail hive is a time-honored
tradition that works.

> I don't even know for sure what I have is
> Nasonov since there is no labeling on the package.

> My suspicion is that these instructions are
> not for the product I was sold. This is why
> I rely on getting most of my information from
> this forum.

>> It is most likely plain old unadulterated
>> lemon grass oil.

Nope, the vials come from Pherotech, so what he
has is the real McCoy pheromone lure.

[ February 07, 2007, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Jim Fischer ]

[kbee]

Dee, My first year I bought the two-pack swarm lure and pinned each inside a swarm box along with old brood frames and caught swarms in each. The next year I used lemon grass oil( which is much cheaper) and did just as well. I put out 11 boxes and caught 9 swarms. Key things to remember are location(up 10-15 feet),size of box(4-10 frames),old brood comb(at least 1 or more frames), and the lure. good luck

[Joel]

kbee, I live kind of near you, I think those might be my bees you caught! Any chance of getting them back? ;)

I would think lemongrass should work as well as phermone lure which would seem good at atracting drones but what is the attraction to scouts?

[naturebee]

Joel,
Not to be confused with QMP, lemongrass oil has the same components as Nasonov.

[iddee]

Joel, Kbee just PM'ed me and asked how much he should charge you for housing and feeding your bees for a year. I told him 125.00 should cover it quite well. tongue.gif :D

[Grant]

Well, getting back to the swarm lures....

I've used swarm lures purchased from Dadant, Mann Lake, Draper (Nebraska), and a custom blend made by Adrian Wenner (California). All worked quite well. But I also included at least one frame of old comb. I've also rubbed the inside of the swarm trap with peach leaves, cherry tree leaves, lemon balm (you can buy this herb at Wal-Mart in the spring).

I've made my own using Lemon Grass Oil and a pheromone based attractant called "Bee Scent" available from I.P.M. in Michigan. These worked well too.

I've reused the tubes, refilling them with fresh oil, leaving them sealed/plugged after filling. I put two of them in a coin envelope (Staples) and stapled in the bait hive about an inch above the opening.

Why two? Dunno (or "ditto" to Jim Fischer). I can't wait to try try Lemon Pledge.

Then I've had a bait hive all scented up and a swarm of bees moved into a hollow maple tree about ten feet away from the trap.

My advice is to give different things a try.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[Michael Bush]

>I can't wait to try try Lemon Pledge.

Lemon Pledge just doesn't last very long. The scent from the Lemongrass oil lasts much better. In the vials, I'm sure it lasts even better, but costs a lot more.

[JBird]

One can purchase plastic eppendorf tubes from a scientific supplier in volumes from 1.5ml all the way down to 500ul. When filled with some amount of liquid lure (lemongrass oil or otherwise), these tubes function very similarly to the more expensive commercial tube lures in that they dramatically extend the life of the lure by slowing evaporation while still allowing the volatile compounds of the lure to permeate the plastic.

[Joel]

Thanks Joe I was confused or at least not paying attention.

Idee I checked my hives after reading this post last night and found out those were not my bee after all. tongue.gif

We grow a ton of Lemon Balm which would release volatile oils slowly as the plant stuff degrades. I would think this is the cheap, effective way to make and use swarm lure.

[Joshua2639]

I don’t have any fresh old comb, just some old comb in real rough shape.

I bought some used boxes last year and some of the frames still have comb that is estimated at about ten years old. Will this still work for bait? Is it the usefulness of the comb, or just the smell of the comb?

Thanks.

[Grant]

Joshua2639 jogged my memory. I remember reading somewhere that old comb is an attractant to swarms, but it is also the propolis odor that they recognize.

Ten year old comb? I don't know. How was it protected from moths? I've often wondered about any residues of PDB in old comb.

Grant
Jackson, MO

[db_land]

A can of Lemon Pledge should be in every beeks tool kit. Last May, at one of the outyards I found a good sized swarm on a fence covered with honeysuckle vines. There was no way to shake the swarm into a NUC box. I borrowed a couple of combs from the hive I suspected had swarmed, sprayed the inside of the NUC with Lemon Pledge and put the combs in. Then I held the NUC entrance up to the swarm cluster which immediately started moving in. After a while I set the box on the ground nearby - bees continued moving in and foraging started. :cool:

[Joshua2639]

Protected? They were stored in up in the loft of an old barn. From what I can tell (keep in mind I am a second year beekeeper, who lost all his bees mid season last year) there isn’t any moth signs like tunnels. As far as the PDB... I have no idea what that is. I have plenty of Deeps now, so I could throw them up with the (old) propolis as well, but I was hoping to use the Sauna tube traps I read about here a while back.

[katmike]

If not using the vials, would lemongrass oil on say, a cottonball last throughout the swarm season?

[Michael Bush]

>would lemongrass oil on say, a cottonball last throughout the swarm season?

I would just put it on the wood. Soaked into wood it seems to last pretty well. The cotton will have too much surface area and will evaporate more quickly.

[Troutsqueezer]

Oops. Dumb question deleted. Figured it out myself, to my amazement.

[ February 08, 2007, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Dee Bee ]

[kbee]

Joel, The lemon balm smells like the lemon grass oil but it loses its intensity fairly quickly. The crushed leaves and stems should work but you might have to change them for fresh on a regular basis.PS your girls said to say hi but they are having to much fun shoveling out the hives (2-3 or more times a day) to come back home.

[BjornBee]

db,
You can get bees in a swarm to do what you described without the pledge. I am sure it did not hurt, but not sure it was needed. I've caught a good number of swarms by just nudging the entrance up to the swarm. And if you think about it, bees in a swarm are vulnerable, and really want one thing...a cavity with a hole.

[Keith Benson]

A clearer instruction sheet:
http://www.pherotech.com/sites/pherotech/files/ProductInstructionSheets/Bee/Swarm-Catch-with-Nasanov-B202.pdf

Keith

[Fernhill]

Anyone have any experience with the 'flower pot' style swarm trap? I thought of getting a couple of those to try but they're awfully expensive to have shipped due to their size. A nuc box with a frame of comb would be lots easier and you can take the frames out and put them in standard equipment. How do you all mount a nuc box 15 feet in the air?

Mike

[Keith Benson]

When it comes to adding comb, does't this invite wax moths?

Keith

[GaSteve]

It might. I put old brood comb in the freezer overnight before putting it in bait hives. It seems to be good for at least a 2-3 weeks. When it's convenient, I take them out and refreeze them overnight again and return them to the box.

[kbee]

Fernhill, The best and easiest site is deer hunting tree stands. I also use well placed tree limbs that I bungee cord the trap to. Just get it as level as you can.

[dickm]

Florida has 500 or more traps for AHB in the parks and around the ports. I went on a visit to them. They use the flower pots and drop the tube of nasenov in through the hole and staple it on a wire. The pots are bungied to a tree or wired to a fence. They are about waist high. They are serviced every 3 weeks. I don't know for sure how often they change the lure.

Dickm

[Tillie]

I found a small swarm in a deep that I had left unoccupied on my deck by one of my hives. (Now, of course, it is occupied)

I know lightning doesn't strike twice, but I'd love for that to happen again. I've bought the lemongrass oil. If I set up a box as a lure, do I leave it without a top - just an open box with frames of old comb and the lure?

Linda T in Atlanta

[Big Ed]

Anyone have any experience with the 'flower pot' style swarm trap? I thought of getting a couple of those to try but they're awfully expensive to have shipped due to their size. A nuc box with a frame of comb would be lots easier and you can take the frames out and put them in standard equipment. How do you all mount a nuc box 15 feet in the air?

Mike

Fernhill, I have 3 of those flower pot traps, but haven't used them. The previous owners of my house left two 10'+ volleyball poles here because they were too heavy to move. They are 2.5" pipe mounted in concrete in an old tire. One day while wondering what to do with them, I suddenly realized I could put swarm traps on top. I used an old hive body on each with the top and bottom screwed on, an entrance reducer, a few old brood frames sprayed with Certan(for wax moths), and a commercial swarm lure. I filled the rest of the empty slots with frames of foundation so a swarm could build a little while before I got to them. On the bottom of the box I mounted a pipe flange and screwed in a 18" piece of pipe that just slide down into the bigger tube. With my tractor, I moved them 300 yards away to the back of my horse pasture and left them. The beauty of this system is that the wind can't blow them down since the bases are so heavy, but to retrieve a swarm, you simply pull the pole over one evening, close them up, and remove the box. I then move them to another location miles away, and transfer them to a regular deep box. Reset the trap and put it back up!

Last year I caught 1 swarm much to my wife's disbelief, and as an added bonus, yesterday I noticed the other on has caught a swarm this year. Not bad for something that I was wondering how to get rid of!

Ed

[livetrappingbymatt]

i catch a few swarms every year w/lure in a 5 frame nuc.
this year will be tring strips& lemon grass oil.
we'll see how it turns out?
bob