Observation hive, queen cells etc.

[Michael Bush]

I split my observation hive yesterday. I took all the frames out and cleaned up the glass. I was going to leave the queen in the observation hive and put a purchased queen in the split (which I was going to take to friends observation hive) but the bees space isn't right and there is lots of burr between the comb and the glass. When I opened it so much honey was running everywhere and bees where clumping up so I couldn't tell where the queen was. I split them (favoring the one I'm taking away to relieve the population in mine.) and had to wait until this morning to see where the queen ended up. She was in the split and was easy to find this morning with them all settled into the nuc box. I marked her and set her back in the tube to my observation hive and she ran right in.

In the 12 hours they were queenless, the observation hive had already built two queen cups. I watched the queen tear one up pretty good. She got inside and tore at it and got on the side and tore several holes in it. More work than I've ever seen a queen do.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Glad you brought up this topic.

I have an observation hive too, having a great time so far watching it grow. I have removed one deep and one med from it about five weeks ago, and now it is past ready for that again.

I remember in a past post you were going to watch them supercede themselves. I thought that I might do that as well. Right now I have one superceduer cell that is not capped yet. The nurse bees can get about half way in to feed. The 'old' queen, she was installed Memorial weekend, is slowing down on laying. She seems to be getting picky on where she will lay. It looks to me she has plenty of spaces she keeps walking over.

The hive is so jammed packed they can't walk around in it. Which, I assume, is why they have consumed all their stores and can not bring any more in.

All the stores have been used up and I have started to feed 1 to 1 again.

I have pretty well decided to watch the supercedure queen take over. My problem is what to do with the deep I need to take out when I have mainly medium hives. I am hoping to get another bee extraction soon to use the queen in. I would hate to waste a good young queen.

I thought about a split, but this late it may be a waste of time. I would probably end up combining it later, and I plan to requeen with all NWC all the way around in September, except in the OLD ferral colonys I removed from OLD sites this year. Those I will not do any intervention to at all. No queens, no treatments, etc.

Any sugestions? I am hoping I am overlooking something obvious.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

>I remember in a past post you were going to watch them supercede themselves.

I did and it was interesting. Watching the queen emerge. Hearing the quacking sound when she's still in the cell. The piping after she emerged. The mating flights etc. I was kind of afraid she might leave since so many of the bees went along.

>The 'old' queen, she was installed Memorial weekend, is slowing down on laying. She seems to be getting picky on where she will lay. It looks to me she has plenty of spaces she keeps walking over.

The "new" queen in mine is acting that way and I thought it was just a lack of room, but now they have two empty frames of PermaComb she could lay in and she acts the same way. Maybe it's the time or year or the nectar flow. (or lack of it)

>My problem is what to do with the deep I need to take out when I have mainly medium hives.

The short run problem is what to do with the deep. You could cut off the bottom at 6 1/4" and put it in a regular hive. You could cut the comb out and rubber band it into two medium frames and put it in one of your regular hives.

The long run problem is that you have deeps in your hive. Mine was made for two deeps and two shallows. I redid it for three deeps and a homemade frame feeder at the top to fill the extra space (with holes in the top to feed through). Then when I converted to mediums, I redid it with the same feeder, four mediums and just a top bar from a frame with 3/8" above it and 3/4" below it that makes some extra cluster space (sort of like a slatted rack). So far they have not tried to fill this. So now it's four mediums, with the frame feeder still at the top and this cluster space at the bottom. I just cut grooves in the side bars of the hive for all of them. Now, if you wanted you could still do all of the previous configurations just by changing the frames.

If it was me, I would put all the frames in a nuc, put the nuc near the entrance (which is blocked while you do your work) so the returning bees can find it, redo the grooves and change it over to all mediums.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I knew you would come up with something like that, thanks.

One thing left, should I remove the old queen and some of the bees to make room? And to insure that the new queen stays?

Thanks again,
Bill

[Michael Bush]

>I knew you would come up with something like that, thanks.

Anytime.

>One thing left, should I remove the old queen and some of the bees to make room?

I'd definitely make some room while youre doing anything at all with a crowded observation hive, unless it's september.

>And to insure that the new queen stays?

Whether to remove the old queen or not depends on what you want to learn and what you want to end up with. I'd be curious to see how a supercedure goes. Some say they kill the old queen. Some say the two cooexist for few weeks and then the old queen seems to disappear. If you want to find out you can leave her and see. If you want to have another hive, my guees is she might start laying well again under different circumstances.

[cochran500]

BULLSEYE BILL
If you don't mind where are you going to get the NWC queens from? I was going to requeen 2 hives with them but was unable to find any so I chose All Americans instead.

Marty

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Just got up, walked by my OB hive and THEIR GONE!!! http://www.beesource.com/ubb/eek.gif!!!

Well, 90% of them are. The little buggars are hiding in a blue spruce looking bush that climbs up a trellis in my back yard.

I don't know how the 4377 I'llget them off that. Guess I'll go poke around looking for the queen.

They didn't leave many in the OB hive, and only two open supercedure cells that I don't think have been capped yet. I have been watching one real close and I know it has not been capped.

I keep two swarm traps in the back yard, but I am not sure that I want to rely on them finding the boxes on their own...

They really do take care of themselves don't they?

Bill



[This message has been edited by BULLSEYE BILL (edited August 07, 2003).]

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Went to count the few remaining bees in the OB and foung one more queencell I hadn't seen before, this one is capped.

It's a good thing that I didn't open the OBH. I would have torn up at least two of the queen cells, amybe all three.

I see no way of removing the swarm from the trellis without using a vacuume, and I REALLY don't want to do that. I have to decide quick wether to risk death and destruction in the vac, them finding the swarm traps, (where I see no activity), or watching them fly off into Oz.

That third option is out, I have to go to work within the hour.

Bill

[BULLSEYE BILL]

This has got to be hillairious, a regular blow by blow accounting of the tremendious story of the day!

Well, here goes.

There is always another option if you just look long enough, or have the time to think about it.

If the bees won't go to the swarm trap, take the swarm trap to the bees.

They are right at six foot off the groung. Set up the six foot ladder and put the nuc box, complete with phermone, on top and push right up to touch the swarm.

The only thing I can think of that would help would be to brush some into the box. I don't want to make them take to flight, so I'll wait awhile.

Interesting to watch the scouts coming back and doing the waggle dance, I'm hoping they get outvoted.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

You probably had to go to work by now, but I would try dumping some of the pheromone out in the hive. You need all the help you can get in the short run, not the long run. Those little plastic vials are hard to dump out of, though, so I usually cut the tip off and squeeze it out the bottom.

I also have some lemongrass oil which is exactly like the nasanov pheromone and works well. A drop or two of that in the bait hive works wonders.

Good luck.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Nope, not gone yet, should be.

Well, I did take some HBH out and sprayed the inside of the bait hive and sprinkled some lemongrass in too. Hope it wasn't too much, wheew!

I was pushing them around a bit with a brush, they go in but don't seem to like the furniture and come back out.

I think I'll go to work, clock in, and come home and mess with them some more. It's good to be the boss. I have to take my son in anyway.

Thanks for the idea of cutting the phermone tube, I hadn't thought of that.

Bill

[Michael Bush]

The HBH has the lemongrass oil and I think that's mostly what is in the swarm lure anyway. I'd probably not put anymore smell in now. Can you cut the limb? Maybe you could take the limb down and away from the tree and shake it off into the box.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

!@#%!!!!! GONE!

Look at that, I left for 20 minutes and their gone.

Hind sight is perfect, I should have used the vacuume.

&#!7

Bill

[Michael Bush]

There's no use crying over swarmed bees. Or is that spilt milk?

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Sometimes you just gotta let it out. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/frown.gif

AAAARRRRGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.beesource.com/ubb/mad.gif

Bill

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Dear Mr. Bee

Please help, my life is in a shambles. I thought we were happy. We had a good life together. A nice home with a great view. A lot of children, mostly girls that took great care of me. An an almost endless supply of food. Life was good, I thought we would go on forever.

Then IT happened.

I was out just enjoying the day when I thought I would come home and see my girls for a snack. I thought it odd that no one met me at the door, but when I came inside you could have knocked me over with a feather!

The woman that meant more than life to me was gone. My children deserted me. All the food was gone, and the furniture was decimated.

I don't know if I can go on living. I have no food and little mouths to feed, and to make things even worse, no income.

Signed,

Smack dab in the middle of dispare.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

DR. Love, er, no that was a different post, MB, I need a little input here if you don't mind.

The bees left on the seventh. The main queen cell was capped the same day. Yesterday I came home from work and the cell was opened, however I can not find the queen anywhere. There is the equivalant of one deep frame mostly covered with bees scattered in the hive. I looked for the best part of an hour last night after dark with no luck spotting her.

I have also noticed that they have not stopped making queen cells even though they have no eggs to put in them.

In an earlier post we both noticed that our queens would be very selective about where they would lay. I do not think that she was really laying as I have absolutly no eggs, or larva in my hive. Is there such a thing as false laying? Perhaps the bees were eating the eggs?

My question is would they cap a queen cell if it was not a viable larva? Did they give up and opened it up to clean it out?

Perhaps I am blind? I do not think that she could have flown yet, would that be a possibility on the first day out of the cell?

Perplexed in glass.

[WineMan]

I really cant believe she would be flying on the 1st day. Heck, they walk around and act drunk for the first 4 hours or so and seem to have no idea what is going on.

Sometimes the bees tear cells down just before they should emerge if they dont like them or there is something wrong with the soon to be queen in them. Perhaps that is what happened.

But my 1st guess is that she is hiding in there someplace. If you havent spent alot of time looking for virgins, they can be hard to spot. By tomorrow if she is there, you might catch sight of her tearing down other cells.

[Michael Bush]

Virgins are very shy. I had to look for days before I found mine after she emerged. The only real evidence I had that she was there was her piping. 7 Days from capping is a little early but not too early to believe she emerged. I'd wait and see before I did anything.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I know she emerged, workers are going inside the cell. I don't hear any piping. One of the other cells are gone.

The only one she could have come out of is large and peanut looking. The other four or so are like oversized cups and smooth.

I will keep looking, I decided I am not completely blind yet. Yesterday I was looking into a hive that I removed from a squirl house and found three queens. One was very young, the other two were very large, one Italian looking and one black like a Carnolian, I think this explaines why there are so many different looking bees in this hive. I took some pictures but now I have to figure out how to post them. I am trying to create a web page, unfortunatly I don't know what I'm doing...

Bill

[Michael Bush]

I have seen two queens in the same hive occasionally. I've never seen three. That's quite unusual.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I should have mentioned that there are/were about 25 queen cells on four frames of removed brood, most of which have not hatched yet.

Knowing that the two large queens are probably not young, and that there are two very distinct types of bees in the hive, it does make me wonder why they made so many queen cells.

MB - I may e-mail you a couple of pictures of them if I can't get my site to work.

Bill

[BULLSEYE BILL]

Mr. Bee, After being queenless for two weeks, or thinking that I was, I gave my observation hive a frame of brood from a NWC hive from outside.

They raised three queens, well, at least two that I watched hatch, one was walking around while they hatched. I think that she was there all along as she is Cordovan like the OB hive was. She walks about poking her head into cells, but does not lay.

The one that was walking about while the other two were hatching, actions seemed odd to me as what I have read is that once a queen is out she would immediately start destroying the other queen cells and fight to the death with the other queens. This one did not.

I am wondering if perhaps the cordovan queen could not make the verticle climb out of the hives tube as she does not appear to have been bread yet and should be at least one month old by now. She has not attacked the other two queens, yet, after two days.

The other interesting observation is that the bees are balling the two new queens to the point of not being able to move. The cluster is hard pressed against the glass.

I watched one queen hatch Tuesday 2 am, she has a black thorax and legs with leather brown abdoman with a blackish tip, and the other hatched later that morning at about 10 am which had a black body and legs and the abdoman was white with a black tip. Do the queens change color as they age like the workers? Perhaps she was released too early?

Another strange behaviour, the last queen the one with the white ab went directly from the queen cell head first into a regular cell and stayed there for quite some time.

Most of the queen cells that I have seen in the past have been opened from the end like the queen released herself. Both of these were released by the workers and were torn apart from the side of the cell.

Your comments on each of these observations would be appreciated.

Thanks, Bill

[This message has been edited by BULLSEYE BILL (edited September 04, 2003).]

[Michael Bush]

>They raised three queens, well, at least two that I watched hatch, one was walking around while they hatched. I think that she was there all along as she is Cordovan like the OB hive was. She walks about poking her head into cells, but does not lay.

Sometimes in a restricted environment like an observation hive the queen doesn't lay so much because it would be bad planning to raise more bees than you can store food for. Are you sure she doesn't lay at all? Does she have attendants?

>The one that was walking about while the other two were hatching, actions seemed odd to me as what I have read is that once a queen is out she would immediately start destroying the other queen cells and fight to the death with the other queens. This one did not.

I think it's a myth. Hives often have two queens for a while. Usually the bees choose the younger or healthier one and get rid of the other one. I don't know if they just stop taking care of her or they kill her outright.

>I am wondering if perhaps the cordovan queen could not make the verticle climb out of the hives tube as she does not appear to have been bread yet and should be at least one month old by now. She has not attacked the other two queens, yet, after two days.

If she hadn't been bred she would have started laying drone by now.

>The other interesting observation is that the bees are balling the two new queens to the point of not being able to move. The cluster is hard pressed against the glass.

Sounds like they are keeping them both and stopping them from fighting to the death. I wonder what their intentions are? Do you think they haven't chosen or they want to swarm?

>I watched one queen hatch Tuesday 2 am, she has a black thorax and legs with leather brown abdoman with a blackish tip, and the other hatched later that morning at about 10 am which had a black body and legs and the abdoman was white with a black tip. Do the queens change color as they age like the workers?

I've observed a dramatic change in size and even a slight change in fuzziness, especially on the back of the thorax, but not a change in color.

>Perhaps she was released too early?

Probably a different drone's daughter.

>Another strange behaviour, the last queen the one with the white ab went directly from the queen cell head first into a regular cell and stayed there for quite some time.

Was there honey or nectar in the bottom? They often gorge imediately after emergenence.

>Most of the queen cells that I have seen in the past have been opened from the end like the queen released herself. Both of these were released by the workers and were torn apart from the side of the cell.

The workers sometimes stop them from emerging so they can keep them from fighting. Usually they have a plan for both queens such as swarming.

>Your comments on each of these observations would be appreciated.

I don't consider myself a queen expert, but these are my comments based on things I've observed in the past.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>>They raised three queens, well, at least two that I watched hatch, one was walking around while they hatched. I think that she was there all along as she is Cordovan like the OB hive was. She walks about poking her head into cells, but does not lay.

>Sometimes in a restricted environment like an observation hive the queen doesn't lay so much because it would be bad planning to raise more bees than you can store food for. Are you sure she doesn't lay at all? Does she have attendants?


I have seen a couple of drone larva that are near to beeing capped. I do not see any attendants near her, she just wonders around looking into the cells and mainly just keeps walking.


>>The one that was walking about while the other two were hatching, actions seemed odd to me as what I have read is that once a queen is out she would immediately start destroying the other queen cells and fight to the death with the other queens. This one did not.

>I think it's a myth. Hives often have two queens for a while. Usually the bees choose the younger or healthier one and get rid of the other one. I don't know if they just stop taking care of her or they kill her outright.


I have watched two videos that made quite a mental image I wont forget.


>>I am wondering if perhaps the cordovan queen could not make the verticle climb out of the hives tube as she does not appear to have been bread yet and should be at least one month old by now. She has not attacked the other two queens, yet, after two days.

>If she hadn't been bred she would have started laying drone by now.


I have seen some drone larva near to being capped.


>>The other interesting observation is that the bees are balling the two new queens to the point of not being able to move. The cluster is hard pressed against the glass.

>Sounds like they are keeping them both and stopping them from fighting to the death. I wonder what their intentions are? Do you think they haven't chosen or they want to swarm?


I hope they don't want to swarm, but it has crossed my mind. Perhaps they are just taking good care of them. I watched after posting this one of the queens squirm out of the pile and walk around a bit. The whole frame got real loud and excited, there was quite a bit of movement until they cluster up on her again.


>>I watched one queen hatch Tuesday 2 am, she has a black thorax and legs with leather brown abdoman with a blackish tip, and the other hatched later that morning at about 10 am which had a black body and legs and the abdoman was white with a black tip. Do the queens change color as they age like the workers?

>I've observed a dramatic change in size and even a slight change in fuzziness, especially on the back of the thorax, but not a change in color.


I do not see any fuzz on the thorax of these queens, just very black and thin.


>>Perhaps she was released too early?

>Probably a different drone's daughter.


That would not explane the white abdomin.


>>Another strange behaviour, the last queen the one with the white ab went directly from the queen cell head first into a regular cell and stayed there for quite some time.

>Was there honey or nectar in the bottom? They often gorge imediately after emergenence.


That, I could not tell, she jumped in too quick to notice, but it is near some honey stores.


>>Most of the queen cells that I have seen in the past have been opened from the end like the queen released herself. Both of these were released by the workers and were torn apart from the side of the cell.

>The workers sometimes stop them from emerging so they can keep them from fighting. Usually they have a plan for both queens such as swarming.

>>Your comments on each of these observations would be appreciated.

>I don't consider myself a queen expert, but these are my comments based on things I've observed in the past.


Ah, but you do keep observation hives and have watched them closely. I appreciate your knowledge, even if you deem it to be limited.



------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[Michael Bush]

I have no idea what to think of the white abdomen. It's odd.

Yes sometimes queens DO fight to the death. But the concept that this always happens is a myth. I've often found two queens, both laying, in one hive. Usually by fall there is only one.

I think the reason the bees won't let your queens go is to avoid this happening.

It is odd that they are ignoring the other queen.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>I have no idea what to think of the white abdomen. It's odd.


I don't know either, but am thinking that she was not quite ripe enough to hatch. That might be why she took to the open cell right away, to 'harden' up and finish out.


The other queen is still being clung onto by some bees, I watched as one in particular was quite persistant. It absolutely would not let go of her wing. I looked very closly and it appears that wing might be deformed, it is very narrow. I think that this might be why the bee was clung to it, it might be defective and it wants to cull her.


Thanks again, Bill

[Michael Bush]

If they wanted to cull her, I think she'd be dead already. Maybe they just haven't made up their mind yet and don't want the queens to fight it out.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

There is somethng definatly wrong with this queen, the others are nowhere to be seen.

She stumbles around, her wings are too thin, I doubt she could fly, and to top it all off, they are about to cap two more queen cells, one mid frame. The attendants are finaly taking care of her, but she will actully fall a couple of inches from time to time, and I have yet to see her lay an egg.

I have no idea where they got the eggs to raise two more queens.

I have new NWC queens coming this week to requeen all my hives, the way the price break fell, I got six more queen for 12.50 more, so I have an extra. Perhaps I'll just requeen this hive too.



------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[Michael Bush]

I wonder what happened to the other queens? You'd think they would have kept the healthy ones.

I often see them raise a queen when I can't figure out where they would get the eggs. I know that European bees aren't supposed to be able to do parthogenisis on female eggs, but sometimes I don't have another explanation. On the other hand there are times they can't seem to get eggs to raise a queen too.

I suppose one of those other queens could have bred and layed and then left or been killed but it doesn't seem like enough time for all of that to occur.

[margot]

Dear Smack Dab...
I just read your post of Aug. 8, and think you need to hear a woman’s point of view.
I thought I had been a good wife, a stay-at-home mom with lots of children to care for. I did have some child care available, but with all those girls, it was really a necessity. We had a nice home, with good storage space--but as our family grew, I realized that we really needed more room.
Then came the final straw. I heard that there was going to be another woman in the house--younger, friskier, and a virgin no less! That did it! My girls and packed a good lunch and left.

We miss our home, but enough is enough!
Sincerely,

Out in the Cold in New England

[Michael Bush]

Speaking of parthogenisis on female eggs in European bees, I was reading Snelgrove and he refers to a study using virgin queens tha were not allowed to mate and about 1 in 10 European unmated queens layed a female egg which the bees promptly raised as a queen to replace the unfertile virgin with. That would about correspond to the numbers I see of queenless hives that get a laying worker and never get a queen and the ones I don't see where they could get a queen and they do.

Why don't we breed for this trait? Seems extremely useful. If a laying worker could lay a female egg and it could get raised to get a queen in a queenless hive, that would be a useful survival trait.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Why don't we breed for this trait? Seems extremely useful. If a laying worker could lay a female egg and it could get raised to get a queen in a queenless hive, that would be a useful survival trait.


As I understand it the queen of a laying worker egg is not a quality queen and will be superceded as soon as possible - I believe I read that in ABC-XYZ.

An update, the cells that were almost capped have been torn down, there is no eggs, larva, or capped cells at all.

It is interesting to note that the bees are not clustering anymore, rather they are scattered about and hauling in pollen and storing honey, probably from the syrup I am providing. I am sure that they think they are queenright.

Still as last week the queen is stumbling around a bit, but not laying. I have my NWC queens now and will requeen this week. I am also going to rework my hive to four medium Permacomb frames at the same time, probably adding a frame of brood from an outside hive as well.

------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[Michael Bush]

It seems like when they are not queenright they haul a lot of pollen. I'm not sure why since there isn't any brood. Maybe if we were smart we'd cash in on this trait to get frames of pollen to freeze for later. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif

It is probable that a queen raised from a laying worker would get superceded but in the meantime there's a queen laying and keeping the hive together. Supercedure doesn't leave a hive queenles because they usually don't dispose of the old queen until the new one is laying.

[nhbeekeeper]

got to love this thread it's a year old but what a classic. thanks mr bee and bullseye http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif

if you dont get an observation hive after reading this thread you never will.

i will say that i have been looking for an affordable 4 frame version for a little bit now but have reached the conclusion that i will have to build one next year.



------------------
NH Beekeeper

** Have you seen BeeBlogs.com ?

[shoefly]

Re: strange observation hive behavior. After I just successfully requeened a laying worker hive with a pushin cage they still built and capped two queen cells. Would they really be crazy enough to swarm into the cold this time of the year?
Even if things are left alone, how are the emerging queens going to mate with no drones around?

[Michael Bush]

My guess is those queen cells are up in the middle of the frame somewhere and they are planning a supercedure. First, they may change their mind when the new queen starts laying and settles in. Second, if they don't, I'd be tempted to destroy the cells because I would worry about the lack of drones also.

[Dick Allen]

A *laying worker* or is it *laying workers*? Some words from ‘The Biology of the Honey Bee’:


“Although a significant amount of egg laying by workers does not occur in queenright colonies, workers with developed ovaries are found in most normal colonies......although they probablly lay few or no eggs unless the colony becomes queenless. When queens are lost......the workers with enlarged ovaries begin to lay eggs within a few weeks.....smaller than queen-laid eggs and are placed on the sides rather than bottom of cells....Many worker-laid eggs are often found in a single cell, *although each worker only lays one egg per cell*. [my italics]

[rwjedi]

HEy MB.

How many frames did you say that an observation hive needs to be able to sustain it's self? I have some old house windows that I was considering turning into an observation hive. They are huge, a little too wide, but I think I can fit 3 deeps maybe also a shallow also. I could set it up to be 2 frames wide, but then I wouldn't be able to see everything that's going on.

Rod

[Michael Bush]

>How many frames did you say that an observation hive needs to be able to sustain it's self?

From my expeience, either 3 deeps or 4 mediums. Less just never seems to get going.

>I have some old house windows that I was considering turning into an observation hive. They are huge, a little too wide, but I think I can fit 3 deeps maybe also a shallow also.

How about three deeps and a homade frame feeder on top where you can refill it from the top?

>I could set it up to be 2 frames wide, but then I wouldn't be able to see everything that's going on.

2 frames wide will flourish more, but I like being able to always find the queen and see if there's brood etc.

My criteria for an observation hive:

Space between the glass: 1 3/4" (might get by with as little as 1 5/8" or as much as 1 7/8" but 1 3/4" is best)

Correct beespace: Otherwise it will all get burred together and you'll never be able to work the hive.

Kind of frames: Should be whatever your brood chambers are so you can take frames out and put in other hives.

Feeder: Needs some kind of feeder where you can refill it without opening anything or facing ay bees. Either a frame feeder on the top or a somwhere you can put a quart jar on with #8 hardware cloth to keep the bees in while you refill it.

Privacy Cover: Maybe you can get by without it, but I like one. It keeps the glass warmer and it gives them some dark. I just use a piece of doubled up cloth. Dark canvas is nice, but any dark broadcloth will work.

Portable: You have to be able to carry it outside to work it. I always close off the connection to the tube and the tube inside. Then I go outside and close off the outside of the tube, so there won't be a lot of bees wating for me when I go to hook it back up. Then I carry it outside to work it.

Stable: It has to survive little kids, dogs etc. and not get knocked over.

Ventilated: It needs adequate, but not excessive ventilation. Too little and you get chaulk brood. Too much and it fails to flourish.

[Michael Bush]

Also, I like the exit up off of the bottom, like the center of the side, so dead bees don't clog the hose or the exit. It's better to have a straight shot out the window and the end drooping down, so the wind doesn't blow straight in. That way the dead bees they haul out don't clog the tube and dead bees on the bottom don't clog the exit.

[rwjedi]

At this point if I put the windows right up next to each other a frame top bar fits nicely (not tight, but not a whole lot of space between the wood and the glass), does it need more space than this? I could always turn one of the windows around for more space or both for even more (one side of the window is deeper than the other). Thanks
Rod

[Michael Bush]

1 1/2" is a bit tight. 2" is too much. 1 3/4" is just right. Figure that frames are 1 3/8" on center in a hive plus 3/8" for the first side for bee space is 1 3/4". There should be 3/8" from the edge of the top bar on each side. That's 3/16" past the spacer on the end bar on each side. Even at 1 3/4" you'll get some burr on the glass sometimes. But not often. At 1 1/2" you'll have trouble putting drawn comb in the observation hive. The bees will draw comb in that space but drawn comb can't be put in from other sources because it won't fit.

Try cutting something to 1 3/4" and put it inside when you put them together.

[rwjedi]

1 3/4 is about what a regular 2X4 ends up being right? So I could just use a piece of that to judge how wide to make the space in between.

[Michael Bush]

A 2 by 4 is 1 1/2". That's about 1/4" too skinny, from my experience. I've had them as small as 1 1/2" (Brushy Mt.) and as large as 2 1/4" (Draper) and I always end up reworking them to end up with 1 3/4" before I'm happy with them.