Bees Won't Use Top Entry / Honey Super!!

[Bob D]

My 1 wintered hive had a bit of problem this spring. It ended up requeening itself and their activity has since increased. They are again hauling in pollen and sucking down syrup.

However, it was packed with honey this spring; so much so that I removed several frames from the two deep brood supers and inserted them into my hives for my packages when they arrived. They started drawing out the new frames of foundation and I added a queen excluder and my first med. Honey super.

Although I do see a few bees there and the frames are glued together now, they really don’t seem to want to go to the new “3rd floor” of their apartment. Instead, they continue to fill out the two deep brood boxes.

2 of my other new (packages) are doing quite well with lots of bees coming and going from the top entrance as well as the bottom entrance. Even one of my new hives has a queen excluder and honey supper (3rd floor) installed already and its bees are using both the top and bottom entrances. However, this “wintered” hive doesn’t seem to want to use the top entrance at all or go into the honey super. In fact, it’s so vacant up there, wasps keep building nests inside under the outer cover (between the outer and inner covers)!

If I blocked off the bottom entrance at night, would that force them to start using the top entry and eventually start drawing out the foundation in the honey super and start storing their honey and stuff there? Or, should I just let them do it at their own pace/way. OR, is this the sign of a different or bigger problem?

Thanks!

[Patrick Scannell]

I would be careful blocking the bottom entrance, that resulted in dead bees for me.

Others have reduced the bottom entrance, and the crowding encouraged them to look for another entrance.

If the hive is strong enough, you might try pulling a few frames of brood up to the top box. That will get bees to hang out up there.

[Michael Bush]

>If I blocked off the bottom entrance at night, would that force them to start using the top entry

Yes.

> and eventually start drawing out the foundation in the honey super and start storing their honey and stuff there?

No. They might. They might not. I wouldn't count on it.

> Or, should I just let them do it at their own pace/way. OR, is this the sign of a different or bigger problem?

Yes. Your "bigger problem" is called a "queen excluder" aka a honey excluder. Take it off at least until they start filling the super. I would leave it off.

[Bob D]

> Or, should I just let them do it at their own pace/way. OR, is this the sign of a different or bigger problem?

>Yes. Your "bigger problem" is called a "queen excluder" aka a honey excluder. Take it off at least until they start filling the super. I would leave it off.

If I take the queen excluder out, won't the queen start laying up there where the honey is supposed to be? (Especially if the bottom boxes are so drawn and filled?

[amymcg]

Bob - Try this:

put the honey super below the excluder, put the excluder on top under the cover.

Once they start to draw the frames, then if you are paranoid about her laying, switch the excluder in.

If you block the bottom entrance while the excluder is on, your drones won't be able to get out and they will die.

[Velbert]

Why do you want the bees to use a top entrance

[Michael Bush]

>If I take the queen excluder out, won't the queen start laying up there where the honey is supposed to be? (Especially if the bottom boxes are so drawn and filled?)

If the bottom boxes are so filled, she will either find somewhere to lay or they will swarm.

The queen will not lay willy nilly all over the hive. If there is no where for her to lay she will swarm. If she lays in the supers instead of swarming is that a bad thing? I think it's an improvement. If she's laying in the supers then they needed another brood box.

I finally went to all the same size boxes and it's all the same to me. If she wants another box she can have it.

[JohnBeeMan]

>>>>The queen will not lay willy nilly all over the hive. If there is no where for her to lay she will swarm. If she lays in the supers instead of swarming is that a bad thing? I think it's an improvement. If she's laying in the supers then they needed another brood box.


I am still a newcomer but have noticed that it is rare that the queen moves up into the honey supers and even then it is generally only a small amount of drone cells. My queen excluders have seen very litlle use is the last couple of years.

My bigger problem is the filling of the second brood box with honey. When using deeps for brood only, I have no place to swap out these honey filled frames. :(

[Joel]

We ran without excluders for years. About 3 yrs ago we started using excluders on all the hives due to the queen laying up into center of the honey supers. It really slows the honey processing into the supers due to the 21 day committment for rasing brood and the bees have crowd the queen down once she has started laying up. It is the natural progression for a hive to raise brood in the center and fill the outsides with honey. We get as much or more honey than we did without the exluders using an upper entrance for incoming field bees. The bees will move up at their own pace and field bees with incoming nectar will use the upper entrance when it fits them as opposed to when we expect them too.

[JohnBeeMan]

On the multiple entrance isuue.:

I have tried using a combination of bottem entrance (always) with mid-level (hole bored into bood box) or top entrance ( notches in inner covers or slots in honey supers). I have observed that soem bees prefer one and other the other - "you can please some of the bees some of the time but not all the bees all the time".

[FordGuy]

why force them. I am NOT a believer that bees always know best, or that things mean certain other things, but in this case let them figure it out. When the current generation of bees that is used to using the bottom entrance dies, the new generation of brood may start using the top entrance. Maybe not.

[mobees]

Velbert
Where did you get the baby nucs and the small frames? I have been looking for them for while.
thanks

[Les Evans]

Brushy Mountain (http://www.beeequipment.com/products.asp?cat=77) sells Baby Nucs...

[Velbert]

Hi Mobees I built them lotsssssssss of work

[Velbert]

I was Reading The hive and the honey bee it was talking about how the bees handled their incoming necter.The field bees brings in the load passes it to several house bees they work it up for awhile getting out some excess water and add something to it that causes it to change toward being honey then they will place some dropplets at the top of open brood cells so it can evaporate more water out of it. then it is moved up, if room to the top of the frame or in a honey super that has been provided. I have always raise the lid 1/4" for ventilation in the winter time. so that green mold wont grow,and a lot of the hives when spring time come around some would be using the upper ventilation for an entrance. and if no Queen excluder is in use, the brood nest will be wright up top. these hives did good to make 1 super of honey. Those that used the bottom entrance made 2-4 supers of honey.

[Tia]

With the exception of one hive, all my hives use the bottom entrance exclusively. The one exception uses a hole in the top brood box where the corner broke off! They seem to love that entrance!

[Branman]

just offer it to them. If they need it, they'll use it, if not then they didn't need it smile.gif

I have the same problem occasionally, but once a few find that entrance, then a bunch more tend to follow