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Foundationless frames

3K views 15 replies 13 participants last post by  LEAD PIPE 
#1 ·
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#5 ·
I've tried quite a few of these and learned one thing. Don't try to inspect them until they are solidly attached all along the bottom. Until then, they are too fragile to handle. Once the girls have finished their work you can't get better comb, until then you can really mess up the job site.
 
#6 ·
Your frames look wedged on sides and top. Are they?
If you put a wire across the center would it deter the bees from drawing? I think this is great but right now i can't even get the bees to draw wired wax foundation that has been in the 3rd medium brood chamber for two weeks or more.
Can I do some empty foundationless between fully drawn frames in the brood chamber, a mix of foundationless and wired wax?
 
#7 ·
<<Can I do some empty foundationless between fully drawn frames in the brood chamber, a mix of foundationless and wired wax?>>

Sure! You could even use an ordinary frame without foundation as long as it's between drawn frames of brood or CAPPED honey. I wouldn't put to many into the broodnest at once, and expect drone comb at first.
 
#9 ·
>. . .I've got to go foundationless but I keep "chickenin' out."
Tia - Try it, you'll like it!
I have found it to be interesting, provacative, entertaining, fascinating, and most of all very fun. Fun to watch, fun to see how it comes out, and fun to know there's nothing there but what the bees want to be there.( i know, enough already) :rolleyes: Just drop one into your broodnest and see what happens. Whattayagot tolose?

DAVID E-
> Did you use a starter strip and wires?
Nope. Just the frame. I'm thinking wires might be fun to try, but that would require more work.
> Did you have a starter strip at the bottom also.
Nope. I've not used starter strips. I have tried foundation once, but had miserable results :confused: and have been gun-shy of it ever since. I don't really want to have it in there and i remember not liking to deal with it when i did try it.

sierrabees-
>Until then, they are too fragile to handle.
Aye, they are very delicate, but i cannot stop myself from peeking in on them probably way too often. I don't bother the brood nest too often, but when i can, i lift out honey frames just to see what they are building. It's so cool! Thanks to Don (fat/beeman), i can now do this with ease!(another story)
I just can't turn a fresh frame top over bottem and study it upside down. I've got to turn it end for end, keeping it right side up and very vertical. I have learned this the hard way! :eek: :mad: :rolleyes:
> Once the girls have finished their work you can't get better comb
I couldn't agree more.

jamiev -
>Your frames look wedged on sides and top. Are they?
Some are, and many are wedged all around. I dont do that any more, too much work. Now i just glue and staple the triangle strip across the top. I think it works better, or at least just as well.

>If you put a wire across the center would it deter the bees from drawing?
I have not tried it, but i do not think it would bother them at all.

>Can I do some empty foundationless between fully drawn frames in the brood chamber, a mix of foundationless and wired wax?
As dcross says, absolutely. This, as i understand, works the best. In the broodnest, you want to make sure there are enough bees to keep the brood warm enough. One foundationless between two drawn frames wouldn't be a problem. More than that would depend upon the strength of the colony.
I would not place a foundationless between undrawn wired wax, though.

RAlex -
>One thing I am trying is to heat wax and paint the strip ...
I tried that too, on my top bar hives. I quit 'cause it was too much work and they didn't seem to me to care that much. They did just as well,if not better, without it. I really am fine with that.

-j

[ August 01, 2006, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: jim b ]
 
#11 ·
longarm -
I think MB, and probably others as well, say they can (or do, i forget which). I have not, i do the crush and strain.
Some of the older combs are tough and kinda hard to chop up, so i'm thinking it wouldn't be out of the question. I've not seen the honey extraction process so i'm not much of a resource there.
Frames that are not attached all the way around are not stable and would probably not survive. Mostly i've seen frames not fully attached in the broodnest. They seem to want to leave the bottom edge free. These honey frames are very tender as they are fresh virgin wax built to store the present nectar flow. These are capped and then crushed and then they have to start all over again. This makes it hard to checkerboard as there are no drawn empty frames to use. As of now, i'm pulling up brood frames to cycle in new empties into the broodnest. This yields some empties after the brood emerges and these i can use to checkerboard.
Alas, i digress. Sorry. Sleep-deprived.
-j
 
#12 ·
jim b - What are the dimensions of the triangle strip? I assume it is triangular in cross section, but uniform height (as you look at the frame broadside)? Do you just glue/staple into the groove for foundation?

> They seem to want to leave the bottom edge free.
For what it's worth, the colony I just purchased had all wired foundation, and the ladies chewed the foundation through at the bottom, so that the lower edge is free, except for the wires.
 
#13 ·
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/frames/sled1.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/frames/sled2.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/frames/sled4.jpg
http://www.myoldtools.com/Bees/frames/sled5.jpg

You can produce over 100 an hour with this jig safely. I don't break out the wedge anymore. I just rip both sides. If you ever want to use foundation, just use a wedge as always. Rip at a 45 degree angle. The blade is buried in the sled, so you can't get cut.

Yes you can extract as long as 3 sides are attached. I extracted a few that only had the top attached. They were toughened and I wrapped a rubber band around them, like you tie in cutout combs. I haven't used foundation in 3 years.

[ August 01, 2006, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: Ross ]
 
#15 ·
>jim b - What are the dimensions of the triangle strip? I assume it is triangular in cross section, but uniform height (as you look at the frame broadside)? Do you just glue/staple into the groove for foundation?

Hobie-
The triangle strips vary abit in size. Mostly about 1" to 1-1/16" across the base and the height is what it is, i've not measured it. It doesn't seem to matter to them. (I've used triangle strips on the top bars that were maybe 1/4" wide and 3/16" in height. They worked too.) They are off-cuts from a process where i work. I just gather them up by the armful whenever they show up in the trash. (I've thought about offering them up to anyone who wants to pay S&H for them but i dont know if that would be too wierd or not.) They are about 42" long and i just cut them to about 17" and glue and staple them in. I also get to shoot a staple in the end thru the side - very strong.

I also make my frames from scrap out of the same trash, therefore there is no groove or anything for foundation, just a flat underside to fasten to. It's all poplar.
-j

[ August 01, 2006, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: jim b ]
 
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