questions about "cut down" split

[FordGuy]

Q for MB or anyone else to take a stab at...

I recently did a cut down that went well, very effective at stopping a swarm. Seemed to me that you could just as accurately call it a "artificial swarm."

My question is what is it about relocating all open brood with the queen to a new site that removes swarm tendency?

[FordGuy]

Hey Mr. Bush, whatchoo think?

[John F]

I'm a novice but thought I would make a guess, and besides you said anyone else.

I am going to go with the idea that you are separating the field-bees (those that fly outside) from the old queen. The open brood with the old queen gives the house bees with her reason to stick around.

The field bees now have become queenless and house-beeless and now have to step back to being house bees and making a new queen.

That's my theory. [Sitting down in classroom chair and waiting for teacher's response.]

[Michael Bush]

>My question is what is it about relocating all open brood with the queen to a new site that removes swarm tendency?

First, you have basically simulated a swarm. So they already have haven't they?

Second: A hive swarms when it has reached a point in buildup where it can spare the bees (young bees) and it has queen cells to replace the old queen. This is determined by a combination of things, such as the population of bees and the state of the brood nest. Then the young bees and the old queen leave in the swarm. You have now changed the state in the new hive to that of a recent swarm, so that it has no field bees. Without field bees it won't swarm. You have changed the state of the old hive to where it has fewer nurse bees (the ones that normally leave with the swarm) no queen (the old one normally leaves with the swarm) and no established brood nest. They now feel the need to raise a queen, establish a brood nest, build up the population and build up the stores before they are prepared to swarm, and since reproductive swarm season will be over by then, the only way they are likely to swarm is if you let them get overcrowded and/or really hot.

[FordGuy]

I thought the bees that left were older field bees, not nurse bees. Now that makes sense. thanks.

[Michael Bush]

No. In a swarm, the young bees leave with the old queen. The older field bees stay.

[FordGuy]

got it, thanks.

[RAlex]

>My question is what is it about relocating all open brood with the queen to a new site that removes swarm tendency?

Fordguy if ya remove all the open brood from whence will they raise a new queen ? It was my understanding to move the queen and capped brood to a new stand/location...Rick

[FordGuy]

In the original scenario you have swarm cells. I may be wrong, but this triggers us to do the cut down. It is also my understanding it does not always stop a swarm, but it is better than sitting by and watfching it happen.

[Michael Bush]

You need to leave some eggs in the queenless location, of course. Odds are there are some in the capped brood. Reality is that there is not such thing as a whole frame of just capped or just emerging or just open brood. There are just frames of more or less capped or open brood. You do need to insure they are not without the means to rear a queen, but reality is, if you are leaving the capped brood and emerging brood there is probably some that has emerged and had an egg layed in them.

[wayacoyote]

> Fordguy if ya remove all the open brood from whence will they raise a new queen ? It was my understanding to move the queen and capped brood to a new stand/location...Rick

Lots of different split techniques with each being flexible to the beek's intentions and desires. For a cut-down split to result in a honey surplus from the parent hive, it is important to move as much UN-capped brood (leaving eggs for them to requeen themselves with). As I understand it, it is the reduction of the workload (feeding the babies) to only one frame that allows this colony to focus on bringing in the stores. You can leave the uncapped brood there, but it will tax the foragers. I would rather leave some capped brood to replenish the hive as foragers die, and suppliment this with another frame every now and then as another strong hive can spare it. This would keep the forager class in high numbers again allowing for max foraging while a queen is reared and mated and the next generation is raised to adulthood.

Waya