it's been warm...should I feed?

[truebluefarm]

OK, I'll preface this by the statement that the only reason I keep bees is because they are a necessity to my pumpkin production!! My bees are a chore, not the joy that I see that many of you have on this forum. I prefer a minimalist approach to management of the hives....

My winter management consists of feeding in the fall, wrapping in the winter, and come February, I start thinking about feeding them again.

My question is, it's been pretty mild here. Yesterday the bees were out in full force, major activity around the hives...as much as I see on a normal summer day.

Since they are so active, do you think I should consider starting to feed again as long as mild weather is projected? Or would that confuse them. I don't want to get into feeding them all winter...

I have one really strong colony and two colonies that are probably weaker since they were from a hive I split (on advice from this forum) to keep it from swarming.

[dickm]

When they are flying like that, you can do no harm by feeding 2 to 1 feed. If it turns cold and they haven't used it, I would remove it. I'm going out to do that to 3 hives today.
I have a deal working to do some pollination for a pumpkin grower in CT here. What effect have the bees had on your crop and how much do you think would be a fair price for the season? I've heard that bees don't get much from pumpkins. Do you have to feed in the growing season to keep them going?

Thanks,

Dick Marron
dickm@snet.net

[Tia]

I'm basically a newbie and live in the south as opposed to your cold climes, but if they have sufficient stores, I see no need to feed. Stores can be checked throughout the winter months by "hefting" the hive. It'll get light when the stores are depleted. Since our temps here vacillate and there's at least two flying days every week in the coldest of times, they go through a lot of food so I keep hivetop feeders with 2:1 on all my hives from November to April. The way I look at it is it can't hurt.

[MIKI]

FEED, FEED, FEED why risk running out of stores over winter...unless you know mother nature on a first name basis..It can never hurt only help!

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Procrastination is the assination of inspiration.

Gary

[truebluefarm]

Thanks all. Maybe I'll feed later this week since it is supposed to be mild after today. I did invest in some nice hive-top feeders for the fall that make it a lot easier. I just wish I had something other than a soup pot to make syrup in. Sigh.

Dick,

Bees are essential to pumpkins. Rule of thumb is one hive/acre of pumpkins. I get away with less than that I think because so many of my bees have swarmed over the years that I've singlehandedly re-populated the wild bees in my township !!

I started growing pumpkins prior to the decline of natural bee populations due to mites. The first year that mites had an impact, my production dropped at least 50%.
I added bees and production went back up. If you are a cucurbit producer, bees are a normal cost of doing business now.

Pumpkins are not a very high quality source for the bees. We've never had problems though because we also grow alfalfa and there is always someone growing beans within a 2 mile radius of our farm. I'd guess that as long as that holds true of the area where you are putting your bees, they'll be fine. Also, you don't need to leave your bees there all season. Pumpkins flower pretty much continuously and will set pumpkins thru to first frost. But there is a window in which you want to set fruit...after which the pumpkins don't mature in time for market.
The grower should be able to tell you when the peak is for their area.

Don't know what a pollination contract would be worth to a CT pumpkin producer. You'd have to check with ag extension up there. I seem to recall that Penn State extension puts a value on it of $25/hive, but I'm not sure if that's what really gets charged. That seems cheap to me.


[This message has been edited by truebluefarm (edited December 06, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by truebluefarm (edited December 06, 2004).]

[ikeepbees]

"The way I look at it is it can't hurt."

"It can never hurt only help!"


A word of caution: While feeding can be, in my opinion, very beneficial in the Fall, it can also lead to robbing. Every situation is different, and I think there are ways to avoid robbing problems. I would just urge you to consider this possibility when feeding.

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Rob Koss

[ikeepbees]

Trueblue,

Interesting info on the impact bees have had on your production - thanks!

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Rob Koss

[A Devries]

Dick you don't need the soup pot to make your sugar syrup. Just throw your 2 parts sugar 1 part water in a garbage pail. And find away to let it mix for several hours. The water doesn't need to be heated. I use a jet pump I got from a whirlpool bath. I was told a air hose with several small holes at low pressure 6-7 psi works as well.
Albert

[This message has been edited by A Devries (edited December 06, 2004).]

[MountainCamp]

When I mix syrup, I pour a 5# bag of sugar into a gallon drink jug and fill with hot water from the tap.
Then just shake the jug to mix.
Top off the water and shake again or leave it a little thicker.
The ratio is about 1.6:1 if you fill completely with water.

[MIKI]

>A word of caution: While feeding can be, in my opinion, very beneficial in the Fall, it can also lead to robbing. Every situation is different, and I think there are ways to avoid robbing problems. I would just urge you to consider this possibility when feeding.<

Nothing new there; However if you think your hives are light the alternative of a starved hive in the spring outweighs the risk.


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Procrastination is the assination of inspiration.

Gary

[ikeepbees]

"Nothing new there; However if you think your hives are light the alternative of a starved hive in the spring outweighs the risk."

No claim to a monopoly on new information here, MIKI. Just pointing out to Trueblue that the risk exists, as opposed to telling him that it can "never hurt." While the risk may be outweighed by the need, that risk can be managed while feeding if the beekeeper is aware of that risk.


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Rob Koss

[Michael Bush]

>"The way I look at it is it can't hurt."
>"It can never hurt only help!"

I'm with Rob. Yes, it can hurt to feed. If you have a colony with enough stores and you feed and it sets off robbing and they get robbed out and starve, then it did hurt. Feeding does have a dark side.

Of course if they are light and they might starve anyway, then by all means try to feed and try to keep them from getting robbed.

[MountainCamp]

If you feed internally, there is no leaking, and have the entrances reduced you should be alright.

But, what I do to keep the stronger hives pre-occupied is do some open feeding a few hundred feet from the hives.

The stronger hives tend to focus on the free food that they don't have to fight for and the weaker hives get the benifit of extra stores.

[MIKI]

Rob,
Your right, did not intend to insult you sorry if I did, poor choice of words not how I intended it to come off. I was for sure talking about light hives only.

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Procrastination is the assination of inspiration.

Gary

[ikeepbees]

MIKI,

No insult perceived, detected, or asssumed -just clarifying my position!

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Rob Koss

[Michael Bush]

I like open feeding more as I work with it. If you have enough surface area to feed so they don't fight over it it works well. It's true the strong hives get most of it, but you can always steal combs from them and give to the weak hives.

[MIKI]

Mike,
What about all the rest of the unwanted visitors would'nt you be feeding all the areas insects.

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Procrastination is the assination of inspiration.

Gary

[franc]

Ive used open feeding to and Ive noticed the yellow jackets get very aggressive around the feeder. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/frown.gif

[MountainCamp]

When I open feed, I do get "free loaders", wasps, yellow jackets, etc.
But, the vast majority of the feed is being taken by my stronger hives.
Without the open feeders to keep them occupied on warm days after the killing frost, they would waste energy in search of food. They would also spend alot of time probing the other hives looking for opennings to rob.
The open feeding away from the hives, reduces that problem. For the cost of some sugar, it's well worth it.

[truebluefarm]

So, how do you "open-feed"?

[MountainCamp]

There are a number of ways to open feed and the methods are dependent on the number of hives.

I don't have more than 15 hives at any yard. I have used chicken waters with stones and grass to keep the bees from drowning.

I have used frames of comb on their side and pour syrup into them.

I have used the aluminum roasting pans with frames placed in them to keep the bees from drowning. One on it's side in the middle and two angled under it on the sides.

I have used the aluminum roasting pans with queen excluders for ramps.

Almost anything that will hold liquid, that you can setup that the bees get to and out of the liquid will work.

[This message has been edited by MountainCamp (edited December 09, 2004).]

[ikeepbees]

Good discussion on open feeding:
http://www.beesource.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001201.html

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Rob Koss