Is there any hope for this hive?

[Tia]

I'm trying to build up what was my strongest hive before it was attacked by baldfaced hornets. There's only about two framesful--front and back--of bees, and the queen is new as of June (another story) and seems to be doing well, but not laying a lot, which I suppose is normal for this time of year. On Sept 5, I gave them a couple of frames of brood and a couple of frames of honey/pollen from my other hives in an attempt to jumpstart a buildup, but the the process is going slowly. Should I feed with a hivetop feeder? Considering their lack of numbers, won't this promote robbing? They're already being harassed by yellow jackets. Field feed (Then I'll be feeding everybody!)? There's lots of goldenrod out there, but they don't seem to be interested. All the hives are bringing in pollen, but I don't know from where. Anyway, I'd really like to get these ladies built up so I can get them through winter. Any ideas?

[bjerm2]

Reduce the entrance opening to asbout a inch or so and feed 1 to 1 sugar syrup for about two weeks (stimulates the queen to lay eggs) then go to 2 sugars to one water so they have some thick syrup to store and it will help them in the long run since it is less work for them to do.
You did well to give then the brood and some honey. That did a lot to help them.
Good luck.
Dan

[This message has been edited by bjerm2 (edited September 16, 2004).]

[Tia]

Thanks, Bjerm, just what I needed. I already have 1/4" hardware cloth over the entire entrance to keep out the baldfaced hornets I'm having a problem with. Do you think that's enough to slow down robber bees so that the guard bees can fend them off? I hate to remove the 1/4" because the hornets will get in--an even worse fate--and I think both would definitely be overkill. I'm glad you specified 1:1, too. I wasn't sure because I know 1:1 is usually fed in spring for buildup and 2:1 for winter. I suppose HBH would be asking for trouble. . .

[Michael Bush]

I find, especially in seasons where the nights get cool, a struggling hive does best if it's more on the crowded side so they can keep the brood nest warm and properly covered with bees.

I start my packages in five frame nucs and don't move them up to bigger boxes until it's pretty well full of brood and stores and bees.

You might want to minimize the space they are in so they have some room to put stores, but not too much room.

[Tia]

They're in a single Illinois super (medium). Four frames full; six frames empty drawn comb. Is this too much room? Should I put in divider boards? I would think they'd need this room for more brood/food. I have the two brood frames dead center with one frame of honey/pollen on either side. Should I put some empty drawn comb between the food and brood so the queen can keep her progeny together in the center of the box? Or will be workers move the honey out of the way and the queen needs room?

[Michael Bush]

They will need that much room eventually. I would limit them to about six frames until they have them all filled then eight until they have them all filled etc. This is really only an issue with a struggling hive and more of an issue in the cool weather of spring and fall. But here the nights are getting cool now. I don't know what you have there for weather, but at any rate a struggling hive seems to do better with a limited space.

[Tia]

Thanks, Michael. It's still in the 70's at night here, but it'll be turning cool soon. Think I'll limit their space & see how they do. Keep fingers crossed for me.

[bjerm2]

MB is right, space and keeping warm is the issue here. I think you still have about 6-8 weeks of warm weather left. If that is so then keep feeding and they will do ok.
Now if you still after all this feel like they have not enough stores you can make up some fondant for them. see
http://www.ingenbees.com/fondant.shtml

You can leave that right on top of the frames and that will help them in the winter. It will not cause the queen to lay eggs but will feed the girls all winter.
Dan

[Tia]

You guys are the best! Thanks so much!

[franc]

That would be way too weak of a hive to make it through the winter here.And if theres no honey flow going on it could be robbed.Id feed a healthy hive and let them store up honey before Id feed a weak hive.

[clintonbemrose]

I live in Michigan and here it has been in the 50's and 60's at night and 70's to 80's during the day. Here you would not have time enough to build the hive back to over wintering strength so I would combine the week hive with a strong hive and kill the queen from the week hive as she may have been poorly mated and not capable of laying enough eggs. I would also put screens for bald faced hornets on all the close hives to stop the hornets from getting another hive.
Clint

------------------
Clinton Bemrose
just South of Lansing Michigan

[bjerm2]

Both franc and clintonbemrose are correct for their area. Where I live winter comes early (October) and stays till mid April. This year I still had snow on the ground in Late May. Now in NC they still have plenty of warm weather to go thru so why kill a queen that was struggling against bald-faced hornets? From what I understand from her other posts she was laying great and had a big force working for her. These hornets will kill off a hive within a week or two this time of year, their numbers are in the multiples of hundreds. Honey bees have no chance against them, I have spent the spring killing the ones around my hives since a few years ago I was in the same situation. Give the bees a chance and they will surprise you.
Dan

[Tia]

Thanks, bjerm2. My thinking is in line with yours. This is a very hearty, young (3 months old)queen doing a very good job and I don't want to kill her just so I can join a handful of bees with one of my other strong hives. Granted, 2 framesful of bees ain't much, but they survived the hornet onslaught and now they're holding their own against the yellow jackets. I've given them 1:1 in a hivetop feeder this morning and we're going to stay the course and see what happens. It's going to be tough, I know, but if they don't make it, at least we tried. I think there's a lot of warm weather left here in NC--it's 90 degrees out there right now--so I'm holding out hope. It's nervewracking because there's so little action on the landing board, but just when I'm starting to lose faith, I'll see a bunch of my ladies coming and going, business as usual. All I know is, my bees have taught me a lot in these past two years!

[Tia]

Bjerm, update: So far so good with the 1/4" hardware cloth, but they're not taking the syrup. The first day I saw something that looked like "lackadaisical" robbing--they weren't frenzied, but there was a bunch of bees at the entrance to the hive--so I put some feeder jars in the field as well. Neither the jars nor the feeder have been touched which I am guessing means we have a nectar flow somewhere. I don't know where, though, it sure isn't the goldenrod. We've got tons of it, but I haven't seen one pollinator on it this year. Last year it was covered. Anyway, we're experiencing some cooler-than-normal temperatures this week which wasn't in my plans. Still keeping my fingers crossed though that this queen can pull it off and produce some progeny that'll take this hive through the winter.

[franc]

Tia I don't know if your doing this but the higher the sugar content the syrup has the better.2sugar or even higher to 1water.The bees won't use the syrup if the nectar sources sugar content is higher.