Night Extraction

[chief]

I repeat NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER, attempt a bee extraction at night!!!! I started late and they were doing fine till the sun went down. Then it got dark and all heck broke lose. I rarely get stung but they got me at least 20-30 times last night with a full suit on. They didn’t want to fly so they crawled all over me and found my weak spots. The vent holes in my gloves where one of the worst areas. I had almost as many in my veil as outside it I think. I had them crawling all over my nose, lips, eyes and one even crawled in my ear and back out again. I was lucky to have only been stung on the neck. I had a head lamp on and I think the ones that did fly used me as the only place they could see to land. I am convinced the bee-vac is the way to go even though I have never seen one. I think I'm going to make one tonight. Well I must be off to itch all my stings.

[iddee]

Beekeeping 101 just changed to beekeeping 1000001. Bet you won't forget that section of study.

[beecron]

We never forget just when we found out that bees CAN fly at night and they CAN locate you at night. Mine occurred trying to move hives after dark and one accidently seperated, allowing them out.

[Altbier]

Ouch, I will remember not to try this!

[Michael Bush]

Yes, I remember when I was extracting honey and thought I'd put some wet supers on the hives in the dark. After all the kitchen was too full and I didn't want a feeding frenzy in the morning, so I thought I'd just pop the top off and add the wet supers.

Yes bees CAN fly at night. They CAN location you. And they don't give up when it's dark. They just keep crawling around on you until they find a place to sting.

That was the last time I opened one at night.

[chief]

"The man who sets out to carry a cat by its tail learns something that will always be useful and which never will grow dim or doubtful." - Mark Twain

Aint that true.

[Joel]

Most of my 200 stings a year come loading bees on the trailer at night. They are determined once they crawl and usually succeed in getting their stings in at night. And have you noticed they tend to act more like they are drilling for oil when they sting at night!

[odfrank]

Dee Lusby claims to work bees at night.

[SilverFox]

I rember putting wet supers back on in the dark and my wife was helping, after I reassured her that bees don't sting at night, well after her big toe returned to normal size, and I quit laughing, (she was wareing sandles) she darned near broke it kicking me whilst I was bent over picking something up.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

I did a cut out tonight that turned into two cutouts. There were two colonys about three foot apart in the same wall. I knew it was going to be either one gigantic one or two smaller ones. Either way it was a bunch of bees.

I start my extractions about six pm figuring it will take about three hours, these took a bit longer and well after dark. I like finishing up after dark, I don't leave as many foragers that way. The one Tuesday night also ran to about ten pm. After they are demoralized and the greater number of them are in the new hive they don't have much fight left.

I think your problems are an equipment issue. First get rid of the head lamp! If you need light use a dim light, preferedly red filtered and away from your body. Second, get a better suit that they can not get into. I got one sting this week removing three colonys and I didn't even tape up the wrists or ankles.

If you are going to do many cutouts, I really recomend that you get a Golden Bee Suit. One cutout will pay for the suit.

Bee vac, gotta have it. I don't use mine until after I have all the brood comb banded into the frames and the clumps of bees are scooped and dumped onto the frames. I start out by cutting and brushing off the bees from the honey comb and put it into a bucket. A seperate bucket is used for trash comb, it's brushed first too. Then the brood is banded, bees scooped and dumped. The stragglers are then vac'ed. I wash up the tools and load the truck, go back and vac up the rest, Raid the area, set a bug bomb, and get paid. Done. Except for telling the customer what to expect and how to handle it.

I like to give the customers a Bug Baffler and let them hang out and watch. They get an idea of how much work it is and you can educate them at the same time, not to mention that they run the clock up a bit that way. But if you are going to educate them they may as well be paying you.

You just need to find a method that works for you. Did I mention I don't use smoke? Once the queen is in the box, they need to be able to scent the rest of the bees to her, so I don't confuse them by smoking. I do like to smoke a nice big fat one on the way home, cigar that is ;)

[Michael Bush]

>Did I mention I don't use smoke? Once the queen is in the box, they need to be able to scent the rest of the bees to her, so I don't confuse them by smoking.

I didn't think of that. That's a good reason. The smoke does mess up their sense of smell for a while.

[iddee]

Believe it if you like, that's your privilege. Just don't ask me to.
I've smoked too many extractions and watch the fanners bring them in. starting imediately.

[chief]

I didn’t use smoke but I did use sugar water in a spray bottle. This was intended to keep them occupied licking up the sugar water while I worked. It worked for awhile but didn’t seem to keep all their attention long enough. I got all the comb out the first night (Tuesday) and into a deep box. I then decided that I needed better equipment so the next night I made a bee vacuum. I went back last night (Thursday) and some of the bees were in the hive but most were back on the wall. I started up the vacuum and boy it worked slick. I sucked up probably half a five gallon bucket of bees with very few if any casualties. The bees didn’t seem to fly all over like they had the first night. I sealed up the hive and buckets and when I got home I dumped the buckets in the hive and all seems to be well so far. I don’t think I will attempt another removal with out the vacuum close by.

Bullseye, why don’t you use your vacuum to suck the bees off the comb first? Does anyone else suck the bees off the comb before you cut it out to band it into frames? For me the clusters of bees were easy to suck up with the vacuum on a low setting but the bees seemed to hold on tighter to the comb and I had to turn up the vacuum higher than I would have liked to get the bees to let go. Is this why you brush first instead?

[Michael Bush]

>Does anyone else suck the bees off the comb before you cut it out to band it into frames?

I did once. Killed too many bees for me.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

>Bullseye, why don’t you use your vacuum to suck the bees off the comb first?

Mostly, I want to insure against hurting the queen. The 'wild ride' through the vac hose could injure her or worse yet kill her. I don't kill a lot of bees with my vac but that is mainly due to not sucking many in the first place.

One of the things I am trying to accomplish is working WITH the bees. That entails helping them do what they would do naturally in any given situation. So when the Michelin Man comes and dismantles their home, there are two things that they are going to do, besides trying to kill him. First they are going to get a belly full of food, and second they will usher the queen to a safe area away from danger.

With the vacuume off you can hear when you get close to the queen. It is the same roar that you hear when they are fanning the rest of the bees to the box. It still amazes me to the extent of what they will let you do to them once they are completely discombobulated. Sometimes they are like working with a swarm or package, you can scoop them up with yur hands or my favorite, a little two inch box, and pour them onto the frames. Once the queen is dumped onto the frames in like mannor, the rest of them will march right in, and that is made known to you if you don't see her, by the roaring sound they make.

Those clusters of bees scooped up and poured into the hive box make it easier to convince the rest of the bees to come along.

A couple of weeks ago my son and I removed a colony from a dormer that was gigantic. I was 24x 14x 66 inches. There was just no clean, quick or easy way to do that one, it was an awful job. We cut out the sheet rock cieling and had to work overhead. Standing on a four foot scaffold, reaching up as far as we could, honey raining down all over us, we were soaking wet with honey and pathetic wet bees. It was a perfect situation for sucking bees first. We banded ten frames of brood covered with bees, filled two cages of bees, two five gallon buckets with trash comb, and three and one half buckets of honeycomb. Even though we had the room covered with plastic, walls and floor, it was one of the biggest messes I had ever made.

So I guess I'm trying to say that situations are different, and yes, there are times that sucking first is appropriate, but in my case I'd rather do as little of it as possible.

[HRM]

I think with this detailed thread regarding extractions it may be nice to add the range of fees that folks can ask for in various parts of the country (or world) for their services.

Is it a flat fee for coming out and estimating, then hourly? Is it just hourly? Is it a flat fee? Does anyone add travel time to the costs because of distance and fuel?

I know different areas have a different cost of living and people will pay much more or less for any service depending on location, but I wanted to see what pay plan works for varoius people.

[iddee]

Thanks, Bullseye,
I have always said that nature will talk to you if you will just listen. Whether it is the thunder before the lightening, the ears laid back on a dog, or the tone of the bees. Even the rattle of a rattlesnake/ All of nature will talk if you listen.
I'm glad to see someone else also notices it.
Thanks again

As for pricing an extraction, I charge mileage for the first visit, then a flat fee for the job, with a variance factor if I am not sure about what it all entails.

[chief]

Yeah it would be interesting to hear what you guys charge. Maybe max and min values for jobs you have done and an average price. I realize that no two cutouts are the same but ballpark figures would be interesting to hear.

[db_land]

It all depends on the situation. I usually vacuum some bees first - especially if they're in the way of cuting out comb. BUT you do want to leave enough bees on the comb to take care of open brood.

My charges range from $0 (poor family) to >$500 (Dr's office). Average is about $200. If the height is over 18 feet, the customer must provide scaffolding or a lift (cherry picker). I made over $3000 plus about 20 colonies this season (April through July). A lot of work but it helps pay for the hobby. :cool: