Swarm hive "smell" needed...

[Budster]

I am going to try my hand at catching a swarm this spring (Ohio) and am curious. I have a perfect swarm trap that is just a bit larger than a large brood super. The length and width are the same as a Langstrom and it is about 12 inches tall. The lid or top is similar to a TBH, or should I say foundationless, in that it has starter strips potruding every 1 3/8". I have also obtained some lemongrass essential oil, but have read here on this site a few different things... I understand that I will need some propolis and old comb to make the bait hive "smell" correct... Will the swarm trap, placed in an ideal spot, with some lemongrass essential oil, old comb and propolis attract a swarm for me??? If so, should the swarm be requeened due to the older queen being the swarm queen. Or, will the new swarm raise a new queen to replace the older queen? Any thoughts or inputs???

[BjornBee]

Everything you say sounds good about the trap.

There may not be anything wrong with a swarm queen. If the queen is with the primary swarm, this is the queen that was successful and productive enough to cause the hive to swarm to begin with. Not a bad thing.

If it is an afterswarm, the queen will be virgin, and you run the risk that she will not successfully mate or may be killed while mating.

In both those situations, monitoring the queen and evaluating whether you should requeen is based on what you find after giving the swarm some time to get established in a hive.

I personally do not requeen swarms do to "urban legend" that swarm produce "swarm" queens or swarm traits.

[Sundance]

I used lemongrass oil mixed into melted old brood comb. I then painted the slurry into the wood swarm traps (Nuc boxes for me)

[Brent Bean]

Swarm lures, Lemongrass oil or some brood comb all work well in attracting swarms. Placement is also important preferably facing the bait hive south or south east and even tho honey bees will take up residence most places they seem to prefer heights from between 9 to 12 feet above the ground. Studies have also shown that swarms will select cavities as small as 9 cubic liters but prefer cavities in the range of 46 cubic liters which is about the size of a langstroth deep.
I will evaluate the swarm queen and only re-queen if she shows signs of being at the end of the line, I will re-queen her the next spring.

[ March 24, 2006, 11:08 PM: Message edited by: Brent Bean ]

[Michael Bush]

>I understand that I will need some propolis and old comb to make the bait hive "smell" correct...

It's helpful but in my experience the lemongrass oil is more important.

>Will the swarm trap, placed in an ideal spot, with some lemongrass essential oil, old comb and propolis attract a swarm for me???

That's like asking me if you put a worm on a hook and throw it in a creek will you catch a fish? Will you catch a big catfish? Who knows. But if you don't throw you line in you won't catch a fish. smile.gif

>If so, should the swarm be requeened due to the older queen being the swarm queen.

I have never requeened a swarm. Among other things I want the genetics.

>Or, will the new swarm raise a new queen to replace the older queen?

Usually they will shortly after they get established.

[Tia]

I've checkerboarded my hives, so if I've done it right, I shouldn't have to worry about swarming, but just in case, I took the hive body from the hive that I lost over winter (queen loss) and split the comb between 2 boxes alternating drawn comb with foundation, making sure to use Housel positioning. Both boxes have drawn comb and honey. Then I sprinkled lemongrass oil on the bottom board only and placed the swarm boxes 6' high in the two places where my swarms habitually settle year after year. At one site, the swarm usually settles 15' up a pine tree and on the other site, they settle about 5' up in a wax myrtle. Two questions:
(1) I know 12' is the recommended height, so both boxes are low in those terms. Is height one of the major factors of success?
(2) If I renew the lemongrass every week or so, is it okay that I just put it on the bottom board?

[Michael Bush]

>Is height one of the major factors of success?

With no swarm lure I'd say it's essential to sucess. Even with swarm lure (lemongrass oil) it's helpful, but most of mine only end up about eight feet up and they seem to work ok.

>(2) If I renew the lemongrass every week or so, is it okay that I just put it on the bottom board?

It probably doesn't matter too much, but I put it on the top bars. You really don't need to renew it every week. It will last longer than that.

[Tia]

Thanks, Michael. I'll put it on the top bars tomorrow.

[SilverFox]

Heck my swarms (feral) have, for the most part, all been under 8 feet off the ground, only 1 so far has been higher, the ones from my hives maybe 4 feet up.
I'd get dizzy any higher ;) .
You guys have some high flying bees.

[iddee]

>>> It will last longer than that<<<

How much longer?? How often would you refresh it?

[kenpkr]

MB,
You've mentioned using rubbing alcohol that an old queen has been soaking in for baiting the trap. I did this today. Should I use my lemongrass oil too or is the queen juice just as effective?

[Michael Bush]

I like to use both the lemongrass oil and the queen juice. They are two different pheromones. Acutally the queen juice might be several by itself, but the Nasonov (Lemongrass oil) is another. Either by itself might work fine, but both I think is the best.

[george dilley]

what about bee balm does it also work as an attractant?

[Michael Bush]

Bee balm does seem to work somewhat. The bees are certainly attracted to it and it has that "lemony" smell. But the Lemongrass seems to come closer to Nasonov. If I had some bee balm, I'd use it.

[george dilley]

i have a large order of bee balm seeds on there way so if anybody wants any just let me know and i will send them out free with a stamped envelope i have about 1500 due this week