Permacomb questions

[ffcuz]

I was looking at a permacomb ad the other day and was wondering.
1. Is it worth the extra cost?
2. Is it even advisable for a novice to try to use it.
3. What are some tricks to get bee's to accept it.
Since my hives are new I don't have any extra comb and was wondering if this was a good option to try.

[Michael Bush]

>1. Is it worth the extra cost?

I think so. Some people don't.

>2. Is it even advisable for a novice to try to use it.

It's the typical plastic problem of acceptance and they recommend plastic foundation to beginners all the time.

>3. What are some tricks to get bee's to accept it.

Best. Heat it and wax dip it and shake out the excess. Messy and labor intensive.

Next best. Dip just the suface in some wax to get some wax on the edges of the cell walls.

Next best. Spray with Honey Bee Healthy syrup.

Next best. Spray with regular sugar syrup.

>Since my hives are new I don't have any extra comb and was wondering if this was a good option to try.

I think it works great.

[HRM]

I was wondering if honey spread over the combs a bit would be a good aid. I don't know if honey water spray or somehting would better than sugar. Anyone try?

My hive had mostly foundation and I was thinking of trying a frame. Has anyone ever put a full honey frame in with them...ect.

I take your suggestions as the most tried and true methods.

[Robert Hawkins]

Michael, why on number 1?

An honest question. I don't know.

Number 2, I disagree. "They" recommend plastic to beginners? I think for all beginners we should keep it a simple as possible. And this definitely ain't. Also more difficult to diagnose problems over a web page.

Number 3. I guess I'll have to get some so I have some credibility when I advise against it, Huh?

Hawk

[Phoenix]

How much simpler could it be Hawk? With a box full of permacomb, the bees will have no choice but to use it. A package started on a full box of permacomb won't have to wait to drawn out foundation, they will be much farther ahead.

I second your motion for Number 3...

[Robert Hawkins]

I'm just questioning all the posts I've seen here that say the bees won't draw comb. Is it permacomb, heat, ventilation, dearth, breed, perticides, etc. Then I type a message back about not enough info.

But what if even 30% of those are permacomb refusals? I don't know. That's why it worries me. MB states he has no problem with it. But look what he has to go through. I don't have a tub I can use to soak frames in hot wax. And how do you heat the frames? That is NOT simple.

Hawk

[Michael Bush]

>Michael, why on number 1?

Why is it worth it? Becausey you always have fully drawn comb to work with. Because it lasts virtually forvever. Because it won't get destroyed by wax moths and hive beetles.

>Number 2, I disagree. "They" recommend plastic to beginners?

Look at almost all the beginner's kits. Most come with preassembled frames with plastic foundation.

>I think for all beginners we should keep it a simple as possible. And this definitely ain't.

Using striaght permacomb is pretty simple.

>Also more difficult to diagnose problems over a web page.

In what way?

>Number 3. I guess I'll have to get some so I have some credibility when I advise against it, Huh?

Careful. You might find out you love it. Ask Bullseye. He uses it straight all the time.

>I'm just questioning all the posts I've seen here that say the bees won't draw comb.

That's the beauty of permacomb. It doesn't have to be drawn.

>But what if even 30% of those are permacomb refusals?

I don't think 30% are using PermaComb.

>MB states he has no problem with it. But look what he has to go through.

True. But I don't do it for acceptance. That's just a side benefit.

>And how do you heat the frames?

There are no frames, but I heat the PermaComb in a gas oven at 200F

>That is NOT simple.

No, it is not. But instant regression is SOOOOO nice.

[isduz]

I was in a hurry a few weeks ago, and bought some plastic foundation called permadent. Embossed cells drawn out maybe a little over 1/8 inch. I've never been a big fan of plastic, but the way they filled this out I'm going to have to reevaluate. Really suprised me.
I'll have to measure it to see where it falls in the cell size debate