Wax Moth Worm???

[rwjedi]

I found what could have been a wax moth worm on the top of my inner cover. Dead!! whichis a good thing I guess. I was wondering if this is something to worry about. (should I take advantage of a warm day to do good inspection to see if there are a bunch of them) and if so what do I do then?
Rod

[Curry]

Almost all hives will have a few wax moths/worms. They can't do anything to a hive until the queen dies... then the bees sort of give up on housekeeping and the moths begin to take over. Many people think that wax moths killed their hive, but actually something else killed the queen, then came the wax moths to take advantage.

[Dick Allen]

>....wax moths/worms. They can't do anything to a hive until the queen dies.

Where does one find more information about the death of a queen causing wax moths?

[Patrick Scannell]

>...death of a queen causing wax moths

I read nothing inferring causaulity there. Let's try to be constructive.

The best defense against wax moths is a strong and healthy hive.

Sometimes after fogging my hives with fgmo, I find dead wax moth lavae on the sticky boards. No proven correlation there, just an observation.

If you use a SBB, you can monitor for wax moth activity by looking for their frass. It looks like cylinders that start out very small and get bigger as the larvae grow.

Finding one dead wax moth larvae is not a reason to worry.

[BjornBee]

Patrick, you may not make much of it. And yes its good to be constructive. But the information given is either correct or it is not.

I'll ask the same question dick allen did. Where did the information on wax moth damage occurring only when there is not a queen.

Yes moth damage can occur when a hive is weakened. And yes a hive is weaken when there is not a queen, keeping numbers up etc. But moth damage can occur when too much wax is on a hive for it to defend, along with many other situations, all having nothing to do with whether a queen is present or not.. The idea that a hive will have no moth damage until a hive is queenless is wrong. Period.

I like to think that all levels of beekeepers read this information on this site. And for misinformation not to be questioned, or scrutinized, especially when it is so obviously wrong, is absurd. Just posting another view without correcting a previous post with inaccurate information is not constructive. Not constructive for the many beekeepers who may take that information and misapply it.

Have I made mistakes on this site. Sure. And I expect others to correct me, add to the information if needed, and continue to help me be a better beekeeper. I hope all feel that way. Some call it constructive criticism.

[jfischer]

The fact that the wax moth larvae was found
up on the inner cover (assuming that the
frames were inspected, and had no obvious
major damage) is a GOOD THING.

Wax moths lay eggs near or in comb. The
larvae would head straight for comb, pollen,
and other food. No way it would crawl on its
own up to the inner cover.

So, it is reasonable to conclude that a bee
detected the larva (felt the vibrations), hunted it down, and terminated it with
extreme prejudice. It then dragged the
body (or the still-living larva) up to
the inner cover in an attempt to dispose
of it, or at least leave it for the bees
that do clean-up duty. A wax moth larva
lying on an inner cover will soon starve,
so even if it was not dead when carried
there, it soon died.

I freaked the first time I found a wax
moth larva lying on the landing board of
one of my first hives. I spent several
hours trying to figure out what brood
disease of bees would result in bee
larvae that looked so WEIRD. I dropped
it into a vial of alcohol, and took it
to the local bee association meeting to
ask if anyone had ever seen one before.

The good news is that no one laughed at
me. They did smile, but who wouldn't?

[Scot Mc Pherson]

Wax moth can infiltrate even a strong hive. The difference is that a weak hive sill subcomb quickly where a strong hive will deal with the problem once it becomes one. Wax moth is almost omni-present in many locations just as SHB is almost omni-present in the southeastern states of the USA.

The adult SHBs defense is its armor. An adult wax moth's defense is its running speed.

The best defense is a high ratio of bees to comb. Thereby ensuring that comb cell never remain needlessly empty. This is why I think TBHs are better defensible against these two pests. The comb is build as the bees need it and their is never too much empty comb. THe bees build comb as needed and we don't need to manage having too many empty supers on top. Just cull the combs at harvest and the bees don't have to defend it and keep it clean.

It works really well. I lost one hive to beetles and moths this year and it was a management mishap on my part and my part only. I caused a situation that bees weren't able to recover from quickly enough and get busy.

------------------
Scot Mc Pherson
Foundationless Small Cell Top Bar Hives
BeeWiki: <A HREF="http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot/beewiki/" TARGET=_blank>
http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot/beewiki/</A>
Pics:
http://linuxfromscratch.org/~scot/pics/bees/

[Curry]

&gt;Where did the information on wax moth damage occurring only when there is not a queen.

... I said that wax moths can't do anything to the hive... meaning the bees. The whole point of my post was that wax moths can't kill a hive off, as many people assume.

Now regarding wax... yes, I suppose if someone stacked up 8 boxes even a strong hive couldn't defend all that space. But a normal, healthy hive with a queen emitting lots of pheremone won't allow wax moths to get a significant hold in a hive.

Just an aside... wax moths don't even like to eat wax. They eat the brood cocoons. I keep several "wax moth hives" to clean off plastic frames with old comb, and they won't even touch new wax, but they'll spit shine old comb. And yes, I keep these "wax moth hives", which are LOADED with wax moths, next to about 30 other colonies (because I know that wax moths can't do anything to strong, healthy colonies).

[BjornBee]

I will say again, that whether a hive has a queen or not does not matter. A poor queen, a weak queen, a hive with too much wax to defend, a hive weakened due to pesticides, should I continue? Your comment was based on no damage to a hive could occur as long as it has a queen. Wrong. I do not care how many time you rationalize it. Your intent was probably correct. But when the information is read by 1800 plus members, with many new beekeepers seeking advice, the comments need to be clear.

"They (Wax moths) can not do anything to a hive until the queen dies..." This is wrong.

I'm thinking of something like "Wax moths can take over after a queen has died", or "when weakened due to a queen loss,the wax moths can take over", or "although they can not kill a hive on thier own, the moths will take over if a hive is weakened due to a queen dying". Not sure if someone would misunderstand those, but maybe?

I will say that alot is "added" now in an attempt to clarify the original post. Makes you wonder how clear is was to begin with....

[Michael Bush]

I'll take a stab at it.

Wax moths only take over in a weak hive. There are wax moths in every hive, but they are usually taken care of by the bees.

One of the primary causes of a weak hive is queenlessness or a failing queen. But other causes for a weak hive are robbing, starvation, brood diseases (chaulkbrood, sacbrood, EFB, AFB), mites (Tracheal and Varroa).

A very weak hive, queenless or not, will get taken over by wax moths.

[rwjedi]

Another stab...

Don't the bees get demoralized when the queen dies. Stop caring about fighting off things like the wax moths???

Just an added reason why a queen less hive of the same strength as a queen right hive would die faster..

[Dick Allen]

I don’t think it’s a case of the hive becoming ‘demoralized’ and quitting.

It’s the young bees that clean house. Older bees become guards and then forage. Yes, old bees will revert to other duties and young bees will forage earlier if the need arises. Still, there’s a limit to what can be done. There aren’t any new young bees coming along to replace dying workers. After 2-3 weeks with no queen the workers themselves will begin laying eggs all over the place and everyone knows they are going to be drones. (There is a very remote chance the bees could raise females through thelytoky, but that probably isn’t worth mentioning).

If we are going to be insist on precise meanings then I’m in agreement with Curry’s statement that *wax moths don’t kill the hive*, but just having a queen in a hive won’t keep the moths at bay, either. Anyway, it’s all moot. If the queen dies the hive will too if the bees don’t raise an emergency queen.

(Bjornbee: Dude, lighten up! Chill out man! It’s only an internet discussion group. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )