Temperatures in Beekeeping

[Dave W]

TEMPERATURES IN BEEKEEPING
<UL TYPE=SQUARE>
0*F - Brood rearing will expand even when external temps are below 0*F.
0*F - Freezing Comb honey overnight kills all stages of wax moth,retains quality, does not granulate, whitens cappings.
5*F - for 24 hrs kills all stages of the greater wax moth.
28 - Colony consumes more at 28*F than at 15*F
40 -Min temp for early spring inspection - NOT intensive manipulation
43 - Surface of cluster remains between 43-46*F
43 - All bees become part of cluster at approx 43-46*F.
44.6 - Bees take brief defecation flights.
50 - Bees fall into cold coma, cannot voluntarily recover.
50 - No pollen collection below 10*C
50 - Brood can be very quickly examined in low 50*F range.
50 - Install package bees, at least in the 50s.
50 - Store unheated honey.
50-59 - Honey granulation is promoted & liability to ferment.
53.6 - Cannot fly at air temp less than about 12*C.
55.4 - Minimum temp for active foraging
57.2 - Broodless bees begin to cluster
57.2 - Mating flights occur &gt;18*C
60 - Benzaldehyde works best on fume board between 60 - 70*F
64.4 - Workers begin to cluster
65 - Involved manipulation require temp of at least 65*F.
68 - Cluster temperatures are maintained at 20*C.
70 - Bees may cluster on outside of hive at temps above 70*F.
80 - Butyric anhydride works best on fume board between 80 - 95*F.
81 - Honey stored above 81*F will deterioration in color, flavor and enzyme content.
90 - Bees manipulate beeswax best at about 90*F.
92 - Above 92*F in hive, is too high for brood rearing.
92 - At temp over 92*F, brood begin to overheat and die.
93 - Incubation temp for queen cells
93.2 - Temp maintained inside brood rearing cluster
95 - Temp inside cluster when brood rearing begins
95 - Normal hive temperature
95 - Where temp exceeds 95*F, shade is required
95 - Granulated honey liquefies between 95-120*F, but darkens honey.
109.4 - Nectar & pollen foraging may cease
116.6 - Highest recorded body temp
147.9 - Wax melts at 147.9*F plus/minus 1*F
160 - Heating honey to 160*F for 4-5 minutes controls fermentation.[/list]

Some folks do strange things w/ to much time on there hands. Hope its a looong winter! http://www.beesource.com/ubb/smile.gif


------------------
Dave W . . .

A NewBEE with 1 hive.
First package installed
April, 2003.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

&gt;44.6 - Bees take brief defecation flights.
53.6 - Cannot fly at air temp less than about 12*C.

92 - At temp over 92*F, brood begin to overheat and die.
95 - Temp inside cluster when brood rearing begins


I appreciate your effort, but it seems that there are some inconsistancies.

If bees take brief defecation flights at 44.6, how is it that they can not fly below
53.6?

and

If at temp over 92*F, brood begin to overheat and die, how can the temp inside the cluster when brood rearing begins be 95?

Curious...

Bill

[Branman]

Im assuming that 92 is referring to the outside temp and 95 is the temp inside the hive? And maybe the 53.6 refers to forage flying?

[Dave W]

BULLSEYE BILL and Branman

I have the same question and many more. When I began this list, my first impression was that somehow I misunderstood what I had read.

The more I learn, the more it seems, EVERYTHING about beekeeping is contradicted or inconsistant.

My source for the temps in question;
The Hive and the Honey Bee, 1992 edition.
44.6 see p346
53.6 see p183
92*F see p642
95*F see p88

Please READ the actual statements and let us know your thoughts.

thanx

------------------
Dave W . . .

A NewBEE with 1 hive.
First package installed
April, 2003.

[txbeeguy]

&lt;hehehe&gt;
I'm going to thoroughly enjoy this thread!

[Ian]

My bees never seem to follow any written rule

Ian

[BULLSEYE BILL]

&gt;My source for the temps in question;
The Hive and the Honey Bee, 1992 edition.
44.6 see p346
53.6 see p183
92*F see p642
95*F see p88

Please READ the actual statements and let us know your thoughts.


&gt;44.6 - Bees take brief defecation flights.

I have observed some of my bees taking cleansing flights in the very low fortys, others would not come out unless it was at least fifty and above. Like us, it probably depends upon how bad they need to go, as well as the individule tollerance of the particular strain of bee.


&gt;53.6 - Cannot fly at air temp less than about 12*C.

This may be dependant upon the strain of bees being observed.

&gt;92 - At temp over 92*F, brood begin to overheat and die.

&gt;95 - Temp inside cluster when brood rearing begins

ABC/XYZ states that the brood is reared at temperatures between 93 to 95, and also notes that colonys will survive in the desert in temperatures over 100F.

They survive under the red hot Kansas sun at temps over 110F, I know. They do this with water evaporation cooling like the swamp coolers we used to use in the low humnidity areas of the country. The bees own natural air-conditioning abilities keep the brood safe.

It also states that in the spring the temperature is not kept as precise, so there is still some temporary tollerance that the brood can handle.




------------------
Bullseye Bill
Smack dab in the middle of the country.

[Dave W]

BULLSEYE BILL,

I agree w/ your thoughts ABOUT the temps.
They dont "add up" when put into a equation of other known "facts".

So.....
Why are they in the H&HB?
Where can we find "true facts"?
Should "experience" be the only teacher?

[BjornBee]

As beekeepers, we can't even agree as to whether there are "aficanized bees", and yet we are trying to pinpoint temperature as to when bees do certain items. What kind of demi-gods have we become? For shame, for shame.

Two things I know for sure. I can't control the weather, and my bees know when to fly, crap, make wax and the like. I couldn't make them fly, collect or do anything else until they decide to do it. If they fly within a couple degrees one way or the other, I'm not sure if it matters that much to me.

About the only temp that I am concerned with is at what temp can I pop a top. And it has to be above 50.13527+/-.34738 for that to happen.....with humidity within 30-75 percent, and sun above above 25 degree angle, and wind less than 10 mph, barometric pressure......

Here's a good thought...There an outfit selling equipment (about 3,000 dollars) that can monitor this sort of stuff. Not sure if it helps make more honey, but if enough of us get together and we each buy a unit, and pool our research, than we could pinpoint these figures down to the nano, and then we would all be better beekeepers.

[dcross]

And experience teaches us the one constant of beekeeping...It depends! Hey, somebody had to say it.

[Dave W]

Yes.... "IT DEPENDS", thats ONE of the many reasons why MrBEE makes a good mentor.

When your dumb about something new (like me), its nice to have someone w/ experience, knowledge AND patience to explain and answer your questions. Sometimes a "question" can be misinterpreted as a challenge, MrBEE always makes the right call, and offers his answer without getting his "feathers ruffled". In my book, he's GREAT!

All of you here are GREAT!

Thank you.
Dave W

[dcross]

I couldn't agree more.

[Curry]

Maybe I'm just anul, but I bought a temperature gauge that has a minature thermocouple on the end of a 10 foot wire (from McMaster Carr). It measures temperatures both inside and outside the hive (it also tracks min and max temps). I've learned quite a bit from it. I couldn't believe my bees kept their cluster at 92 even though it was below freezing outside, and the lid was propped open. Right now I'm using it to study whether I should close my screen bottom boards or not. It doesn't appear to help closing them off, temps are consistent throughout hives open vs. closed. We'll see...

[BEEn Stung]

Curry; Keep us posted on your findings. I have closed off the ends of my SBBs but they would be easy to open.

------------------
Erwin

[Daisy]

Dave W thanks for the info. Interesting.

I'll pay attention to temp and what's going on around the hive. They seem to fly at the lower temperature. Mine collect pollen on cooler temps also.

I did add newspaper over the tops of the frames and it has gotton a little moist. They must put out a lot of condensation..

[Michael Bush]

If you put a rectal thermometer in you and read the temperature when it's -10 and you are naked and when you're wearing a parka and cloths there will be no difference in the reading. Therefore, there it must no make any difference if you wear a coat or clothes or not.

I don't think the temperature of the cluster is an accurate measurement of whether it matters to leave the bottom open. The comsumtion of stores would be a more accurate measurement of how it affects them. Or the number of bees dying on the outside of the cluster maybe.

[hoosierhiver]

most beekeepers seem to think that when the bee's cluster and keep themselves warm,the surrounding air in the hive is unaffected,but it makes sense that they raise the surrounding temperature at least margainally.this probably helps the cluster move gradually towards food stores,as well as heating up the cappings/honey a little. i also wonder about wind gusts blasting freezing air up into the hive if you have the screened bottom board open all winter,this seems like it would be a stress on the bees.

[Robert Brenchley]

They probably keep the cluster at the same temperature regardless, but use more stores to keep warm if it is open. How much more would depend an the draught; warm air rises, so if the hive is out of the wind the difference may not be that great.

[BULLSEYE BILL]

&gt;If you put a rectal thermometer in you and read the temperature when it's -10 and you are naked and when you're wearing a parka and cloths there will be no difference in the reading. Therefore, there it must no make any difference if you wear a coat or clothes or not.


I am sure that if I spent a winter outside in a parka and proper winter clothes that my core temperature would be adiquate to survive. However if I did not have on the proper winter protection my survival would most assureadly be lost.

If I lived in the part of the United States that would accumalate enough snow to cover the bottom of the hive, I would feel ok about leaving the bottom of the hive open. Here we have a LOT of cold wind, every weather report makes a big deal out of wind chill, and for good reason.

In my area I look at the bees and see how they prepair for themselves. We do not have any colonys that survive exposed to the elements here. Here they close up the entrances to a minimum to keep out the wind. They control the ventilation and the humidity themselves, and they survive.

I close my SBB's, I minimize my entrances, and so far I have not proped my tops open and have not had any winter losses.

As MB regularly points out, the bees know what they need and how to take care of themselves. We as beekeepers tend to over protect them sometimes to their demise.

Bill