feed differences

[BjornBee]

If you had three options of dry pollen substitute, without knowing what they are, regardless of price, just basing on the list of ingredients, which would you choose and why? Were talking dry pollen substitutes, and can assume the same amino acids among all three.

Option #1...48.5% protein...4.9% carbohydrates(sugar)

Option #2...40.8% protein...10% carbs (sugar)

Option #3...43.0% protein...28.7 carbs (sugar)

What impact would the differences of the carbohydrates (sugar) content have?

Thank you.

[ February 07, 2007, 06:20 AM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]

[dragonfly]

To borrow a well-known phrase here at Beesource, it depends. I would try to mimic what would be found in nature. If local pollen sources were 40% protein and say, 20 grams carbs, I would go with that one. I don't know what the make-up of actual pollen is.

[BjornBee]

Who has the make-up of what natural pollen is? Or does it vary drastically with each type pollen being brought in?

[MountainCamp]

I would use Option #1...48.5% protein...4.9% carbohydrates(sugar), with the price being comparable.

I am feeding Pollen Substitute for the protein content. I can add sugar and I please to make it more acceptable, if required.

[Yuleluder]

Bjornbee,

I think I remember reading somewhere that each pollen has it's different levels of carbos, protein, and amino acids. I think that is why they prefer some pollens over others.

[BjornBee]

yuleluder, Yeah, I realize that. Just asking whatever questions needed to further the information along.

Mountaincamp, You say "I can add sugar and I please to make it more acceptable, if required."

Are you saying if you add more sugar, it would be more acceptable? I would like to know if pollen is best without the sugar content, or just as good with the sugar content. And if the sugar had no negative impact, why would you not use the one with more carbs(sugar)? On the surface it would seem logical to choose the one with carbs and alomost just as much protein. But I am not sure if I am missing something(?) Don't most when mixing patties just add carbs(sugar/hfcs) anyways?

[AstroZomBEE]

I agree with mountancamp, I can add sugar to get the carbs up at my will. This way if you have to have the pollen shipped in, you paying for shipping of the pollen. I have a connection for sugar of which i know i am getting a good shipping rate on.


Aaron

[dragonfly]

This reference is from Queensland, but I doubt there is an appreciable difference in pollen protein content generally. It sounds like mid-twenties as far as percent goes is the upper limit found in nature. Sorry I couldn't find a more local source of info.

http://www.honeybee.com.au/Library/Pollenindex.html

[BjornBee]

Astro,
I am not sure your logic, but maybe its me. If I shipped two different 50 pound bags of pollen substitute, or even pollen for that matter, and both were 30% protein by volume, and one was 5% carbs and the other was 30% carbs, you still are paying the same amount for the protein in each bag. Its not like your getting more protein for the fact one has more or less carbs(sugars) included in the ingredients. A 50 pound bag is still a 50 pound bag. And 30% protein is still 30% protein, regardless of the percentages of the other ingredients. Does this make sense, or am I looking atthis wrong?

[ February 08, 2007, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]

[BjornBee]

dragonfly, thanks for the site. I downloaded a few good items from the site. Very helpful.

[MountainCamp]

I feed a dry pollen substitute as is within the hive and outside of the hive in cake pans.
When I feed in the hive the substitute is laying on or along side of granular sugar. Many times there is also light syrup on as well. When I feed in a cake pan, I do not alter the substitute at all, just pour it out.
When I feed this way, depending of course on the time of year and the availability of natural pollen, they take and use it quite well.

I will also take the pollen substitute and mix it into some syrup and feed it like a “protein shake”. They will work the shake jar most of the time harder than just a light syrup jar. They will work the shake even when there is natural pollen coming in. My assumption on this was basically due to the fact they were getting both the sugar and protein.

My thinking is that I want the higher protein content in the substitute. If I want to get them carbs, I can do that easy enough.
If the protein content were the same and one substitute provided more carbs, and the price was the same, then I would take the higher carbs. However, I don’t want to sacrifice protein levels and pay a significant amount extra for sugar in the substitute.

[dragonfly]

You're welcome. Glad you found it useful.

[tecumseh]

bjorn sezs:
I am not sure your logic, but maybe its me. If I shipped two different 50 pound bags of pollen substitute, or even pollen for that matter, and both were 30% protein by volume, and one was 5% carbs and the other was 30% carbs, you still are paying the same amount for the protein in each bag.

tecumseh thinks out loud:
first off ALL protein ain't ALL the same. my off the cuff guess is that it would be best to make certain that the amino acid requirement (of the honeybee) were at least met on a minimum bases and then reduce the financial equation to how much TOTAL protein (a gross estimate of amino acid plus undigestiable proteins) cost by the unit.

the shipping cost of all that added suger wouls seem to me to be a bit pricey for my own personal taste.

[BjornBee]

"If the protein content were the same and one substitute provided more carbs, and the price was the same, then I would take the higher carbs."

Thank you MountainCamp, I am glad that someone understood what I was saying, even if it was hypothetical... ;)