wild hive

[GunHill]

Ok here it is, I live in southern California and just found a hive in the wild. I have a bee hive that I just bought and it is empty. The bees are in a downed tree with a split in it. My Question to everyone is how do I get these suckers out and into my new hive. The winters here are non-existant (I am sure you have seen the rose parade)there are flowers blooming most of the year and the temps are mild. Keep in mind that to get to this hive is about a half mile walk on a horse trail, then off the trail a bit. What will I need. And how do I get them out and maybe a little honey because they have been there a while. :confused:

[Fusion_power]

I would not recommend this for a beginner because it is very timeconsuming and runs a very high risk of getting stung severely. Are Africanized bees in your area? If so, don't even think about this!

1. Get a good beesuit with veil.
2. Did you get wax foundation with your new beehive? If not, get foundation to put in the frames and prepare 5 of the 10 frames.
3. Practice lighting the smoker. We use dried pine needles as smoker fuel. Other possibilities are rolled up burlap bags, heavy cotton fabric, etc.
4. Carry smoker, hive tool, beehive, bee suit and veil, chainsaw, and matches to the location of the tree.
5. Suit up and light the smoker and apply about 10 to 20 slow puffs of smoke to the bees.
6. Use the chainsaw to cut a chunk of wood out from the cavity the bees are in.
7. Cut pieces of brood from the cavity and trim them to fit the 5 empty frames. Wrap cotton cord around the frame and comb pieces so the cord holds the comb in the frame. Put the frames in the hive as you remove the rest of the comb from the tree. Bits and pieces of comb with brood may be fitted into frames if you choose.
8. Sit the hive next to the downed tree where the bees were. Put any extra pieces of comb on or around the hive.
9. Walk away from the hive and wait 2 hours. Many of the bees should find their way into the hive and the brood waiting there.
10. In a couple of days, staple screen over the colony etrance, securely tie the top and bottom to the brood chamber and carry the colony to a permanent location.

Sounds easy, but please get an experienced beekeeper to help. This is tough for a beginner.

Fusion

[ December 02, 2006, 12:34 AM: Message edited by: Fusion_power ]

[honeyman46408]

"Sounds easy, but please get an experienced beekeeper to help. This is tough for a beginner".

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm

[jim b]

GunHill
Fusion_power gives good advice here.
-j

[bluegrass]

If the tree is already down and you can get permission to cut it, I would cut the section out that has the colony in it and lift it onto a trailer with an engine hoist. take it to your place and set it up like a hive and then start working on gettin the bees out. Once you have the log on your own place you have all the time in the world to find a way to extract the bees. I would first try the screen funnel method of getting the bees to move into the new hive.

[GunHill]

How do you make sure to get the queen out after you get the the comb into the frames?

[wade]

Be very careful. As you remove the comb, shake the bees off it into your box, and put the comb on top of the box if it has brood in it until you get a chance to deal with it. Put the other comb in a bucket and keep a lid on it, saving two or three good pieces with honey to secure to frames and give back to the bees. When you get all the comb outta the tree there will be a big stack of it on top of your box. If the bees are flying into the box and especially if they do the nasanov gland thang, you have the queen. If the bees are globbed up inside the tree still when you're done that's beyond my experience, but the queen is probably still in the tree. If you get the comb secured into the frames and close the hive, bees should be mostly going in your box, and doing the nasanov thang. If they're doing that then put the box right next to or on the old tree home, go away until evening, screen off the entrance, and take it home. If there is no comb left in the tree and the queen is in your box, you'll get most or all of the bees. If the queen is still in the tree or flying around somewhere I don't know what will happen, maybe they'll all still go in your box with the brood in there if you leave it there on the tree for a few days. I don't think I'd try and scoop the bees outta the tree by hand unless I had to. Some serious beekeepers will say use a bee vaccuum. Did I mention that all of the comb needs to be out of the tree?

[iddee]

Gunhill, a few have advised you to get experienced help or wait until spring. Look at the link below, and if you aren't ready to do this, then take their advice and wait. I have been removing established hives for 30 years and will tell you quick, it is not for the novice or faint of heart.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/Swarm%20catching%20attire/bees031.jpg

[jim b]

Gosh, i haven't done one without my shirt yet. :eek: :D :D Maybe Gunhill will let me help and i can try that. ;)
Whattaya think? :rolleyes:

[wade]

Uh..you're handsome and all Iddee but....man that image will be hard to shake. :eek: :eek:

[GunHill]

Well let me see about this. Here is how I am sizing things up. First thing is the suit. I don't have one but I do have many things that can act as one. Seems to me that all I have to do is keep them from getting to my skin, right. I have a vail and I will tape everything shut. So with that I think im good. Now opening the tree: I'm a contractor and have more tools than I need. So on this one since I will be away from power, I'll just bring my saws-all. The bees are coming out of a crack in a tree that is down on the ground. The crack is long but the bees are only coming out of a 5 inch long area. There are cracks on the other side of the tree, and looking in I can see some comb but no bees on it, and no bees coming from that crack or any other cracks or open areas in the tree. So I was going to open a rectangular hole, maybe 18 inches by 8 inches, and remove the chunk of tree opening the area so I can start to remove the comb. I was going to bring my deep, and all frames. Maybe 5 without foundation. Cut some of the brood to fit, and maybe some with honey like Wade was saying. Then putting everything else in a bucket or maybe trash bags, removing everything. By then I think I'll know If I have gotten the queen. I know I have never done this before but if I don't go off half cocked and think obout everything what else could go wrong?
So what do you think? Can I pull this off?

ps Jim b I'll try and call you sunday some time my son has a swim meet and I play soccer.

[Troutsqueezer]

Saws-all?

My advice: Go down to the local bee store and place an order for 3 pounds of bees for your empty hive. Get off on the right foot come this spring.

[sierrabees]

GunHill

After reading your last post I have to concure with Dee Bee. It sounds like at this point in time trying to take a wild hive is most likely to forever end your interest in beekeeping. The only other option I would reccomend would be to set up a hive as close to the opening as you can get it, put some lemongrass oil in it, cover the opening in the old hive with a cone escape and start looking for a source for a new queen (not easy to find this time of year). Winter bees are usually in their least friendly mood, they hate power equipment, and a veil and duct tape can almost be guaranteed to end up with half a dozen undetected openings the bees will discover. Many years ago I found myself with more bees inside my veil than there were outside it and it wasn't pleasant. That was the time my wife locked me out of the house because there was no way she would open the door until I got rid of my fan club.

What would you call a man who never rode a horse before and jumped on a wild mustang for his first experience?

[wade]

Gunhill,

Unless you don't mind getting stung then you should spend about $200 for a full bee suit, like a Golden bee or Brazilian. Those bees will be all over you, clinging and stinging, as soon as the noise and vibration begins. I haven't heard mention of smoke, you need that. If they're Africanized like somebody offereded then you'll probably be on the evening news with the make-shift bee garb.

I offered my suggestions because you asked, but the warnings of caution should be heeded.

[iddee]

Wade, if you don't like my face, maybe you'll like my butt better.

Gunhill, here is a swarm that would be perfectly docile with a 20 degree rise in temps. As was, I received somewhere around 200 stings in a period of 5 minutes. Sierra's mustang reference is right on.
If this doesn't convince you to find a beek to help, then go for it. Just check your ins. coverage and update your will before beginning.

Good luck.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j226/Iddee/Cold%20swarm/5ccd2277.jpg

[power napper]

GunHill--have some one take lots of photos, or record with camcorder if and when you do this! There is lots of good advice above to answer your inquiry.
:eek:

[bluegrass]

I say do it! everybody has to start somewhere! If they where africans you would not have been able to get anywhere near that tree.
For me personally; I would set a swarm trap or do the cone one way entrance new queen method before cutting the log up and removing comb. that is alot of work and high risk for the queen. I would say that it would only have a 1 or 2 % survival rate. Would be a great learning experience though that I would not pass up.

[ December 03, 2006, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: bluegrass ]

[GunHill]

WOW!!! I'm going to take a better look now. Most of you are saying stay away. I'm wondering why iddee got stung and where on his body, and what kind of suit that is. I do notice something that I would have addressed, that is the socks and shoes. That seems to bee a weak spot! If and when I do it There will be no way for them to get me, NONE!

[iddee]

I carry a disposable suit with me at all times. I don the attire maybe once every other year. That morning, I received 100 to 125 on face, head, hands, etc. Prior to doning the suit and veil and going back. I received the rest on hands and neck. Believe me, there is no beeproof suit. They will find a way in. If you will just find an experienced beek to mentor you during the planning stages, it will go smooth and you will have a nice hive of bees. Without him, you will have a dead bunch of bees, honey smeared everywhere, and so many stings you cannot count them. PM ncbeginner on this forum and ask him. I carried him through his first removal this fall. He now has a strong 2 story hive ready for splits in the spring. He will tell you real quick why he would not have succeeded alone.

>>>If and when I do it There will be no way for them to get me, NONE!<<<

Famous last words....Again, there is NO totally beeproof beesuit.

BUT, if you insist on going through with it, PM me for phone number and I will try to help you enough to at least keep you alive and save the bees.

[GunHill]

I do appreciate your words and concern, and will take everything I hear and put it into practice. I don’t have a death wish or to get stung even once. It has been my motto to learn from someone else’s mistakes and try not to make them myself.

[Hobie]

Getting the queen isn't easy for a beginner, either. I got my start in beekeeping taking a hive out of a tree that was scheduled to come down on a job site. I thought I did pretty good, butr when all was said and done, I had some comb abnd bees, but there were more still up the tree. I took mine home, but they never learned how to forage, and eventually abandoned the hive.

[Fusion_power]

I got started by removing some bees from a house, and then some from a tree, and then some more from an abandoned building, and more from a church wall. It can be done. Its not easy. You do have to learn a LOT. I did not have help from an experienced beekeeper. On the other hand, I was 15 years young and just dumb enough to keep trying. Well I eventually got into a really nasty colony of bees, one of those that comes out after you 100ft away and when you actually touch the tree, thousands of them come after you. They weren't africans, but they were some of the hottest crossbred black bees I've ever seen.

Do not go into this thinking you will not be stung. Its not humanly possible to remove bees without getting stung.

I learned to find queens by watching a grand master. I was fortunate to live within a few miles of the president of the American Bee Breeders Association. He produced exceptionally good Italian queens and was more than willing to demonstrate the process of requeening colonies.

I learned much much more by watching good beekeepers at work than I ever learned from diving in headfirst on my own. Thats the biggest reason I suggest you get experienced help. The bees are more likely to survive and you are more likely to enjoy the experience.

Fusion

[jjgbee]

I would advise you contact LA County Beekeepers Assn. Our annual dinner is on Dec 12 at 6pm in Sunland. We meet every month in La Crasenta. Contact me at 661 728 9336. The bees will be fine for a while, until you can get some local help. We are always looking for new beekeepers. My personal openion is to buy a package in the spring. Africans are in your area. The club buys queens and packages in bulk each spring. Hope to hear from you.

[empilolo]

Really encouraging posts. None of my swarm traps has worked so far. But some boys have located an accessible hive in the bush.

I'll wait a little bit longer, but it does look like I will have to do a cut-out if I want some bees. Nobody selling packages around here.

I am finding it rather difficult to get somebody to agree act as video cameraman for the expedition.

[hummingberd]

Could somebody explain the difference between this hive and a swarm? I have heard so much that when bees swarm they are extremely gentle. I know that this group of bees is a wild colony so they are already established, but why would they be so agressive if there are always flowers blooming like wrote about in his post?

[Hobie]

Bees that have swarmed are looking for a new home, and are often rather single-minded about that. Putting them in a hive often suits what they want.

In this case, he is quite literally tearing their home apart, and they will defend it.

[GunHill]

I'm a little interested why Michael Bush
has not chimed in? It seems that his opinion is greatly valued. I would have to say that everyone has giving me enough info. to make me stop and look at what is going on. I will seek out some help. I do not want to get stung badly, not even once. The bees have been there for at least a year, so they will not be going anywhere. I'll take it slow and safe.

[Hobie]

For what it's worth, I didn't get stung during my first cut-out. I was wearing tyvek coveralls and a veiled jacket, gloves, leather boots and pant-leg velcro straps. I did, however, sweat buckets.

[iddee]

Hobie, was your first cutout done in Dec.? It makes a difference, you know. smile.gif

[Michael Bush]

>I'm a little interested why Michael Bush
has not chimed in?

I made the fourth post on this thread:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesferal.htm

That's about all I have to say about that. smile.gif

It is a pretty complex undertaking for a newbie to do a cutout, but it's also how I started. I got stung a lot. I learned. I bought a bee suit with a zip on veil. I learned to rubber band the ankles. I got used to getting stung. smile.gif

Where is Simi? I certainly wouldn't be doing a cutout here, now. Maybe Down Under, now.

[GunHill]

Simi Valley is in Southern California. Winters are mild; temps in winter very rarely dip into the 30s. Mostly 40-50 lows, and highs 60-90, mostly around 73. It’s not unusual to have a hot Christmas. If you remember, the rose parade is almost always very pleasant, but it is winter so every once in a while it cools off. Today it was 70s- tomorrow the same, another day in paradise. Simi Valley is where the Rodney King police trials were. I'm sure you remember the riots after...

[Ron Young]

Do you have any type of nectar flow, or would you be forced to feed the rest of winter?

[Hobie]

No, my cutout was in July. Of course, from the description, July in Erie is like December in Southern California... ;)

[ December 05, 2006, 02:58 PM: Message edited by: Hobie ]

[GunHill]

There is some sort of flowers blooming all the time. I don’t know though, I have never had a hive before.

I was going to keep the hive up and running at an avocado ranch that some friends own (about 250 ac.)but if you guys have heard on the news the latest fire in Moorpark, ca. took over half of there trees.

[sierrabees]

Get some fireweed seed. Treat it in a freezer for two months so it wil germinate in your area. spread it in the fire area close to where you are going to keep your bees. You'll be one of the very few in California to be able to get fireweed honey.

[GunHill]

Where do I get fireweed?

[sierrabees]

Prairie Moon Nursery
www.prairiemoon.com (http://www.prairiemoon.com) (866) 417-8156

Be sure and read the culture instructions. The seeds will need about two months at or near freezing to break dormancy. Once they have sprouted they will propigate locally from the root stock but they won't spread and take over the neighborhood in your area because they 1)don't handle competition well and 2)they won't be able to spread by seed because you don't have a real winter. They will need a fair amount of water initially but once established they can be relatively drought tollerant.

I wanted to try this here because we have so many forest fires every year and for the most part our high mountain climate is suitable. Unfortunately this fall a beekeeper started a sizable fire in the chaperal country near here by being careless with their smoker. A witness saw the smoker fly off his truck. Now anyone who has had a fire near their property is practicly ready to shoot beekeepers on sight. I've lost three locations because of this incident and I wasn't even in the state at the time the fire started.

[longarm]

Sierrabees: that's a good idea re: fireweed seeding.

Gunhill: I am a rank novice first year beek so take my opinion for what it's worth but have you considered leaving this feral colony where it is and setting swarm traps around it? Go ahead and buy your first colony as well but it would be pretty neat to add hives from the swarms it will undoubtedly throw.

[GunHill]

well now it doesn't matter anyway because the parks Dept. says they will stay.