Small cell foundation question

[eric101]

I may have asked this before but here goes. All my hives have large cell plastic foundation. I am considering shifting to small cell this year. First, I get frome reading here that there is no plastic small cell foundation available - Right? Second, can I use the same wooden frames I am using for plastic if I shift to regular small cell wax foundation? Third, might I be better off just replacing all my 100 brood frames with the plastic small cell frames? Fourth, how shoudl I do this? Should I pull half the frames and place in an every other frame patern or just do one or two at a time?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Eric

[kenpkr]

If you haven't seen this ongoing post yet, it may help answer your first question. My understanding is that the smallest plastic foundation only available is 5.2 mm from- plasticell? I just purchased some Honey Super Cell and cut them down to medium size. I'll be trying those this spring.
SC plastic foundation source (http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=007175;p=1)

[ February 09, 2007, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: kenpkr ]

[Michael Bush]

> I get frome reading here that there is no plastic small cell foundation available - Right?

We are currently discussing the recent discovery that the Mann Lake plastic frames appear to be 4.9mm. You might check that discussion for a part number.

>Second, can I use the same wooden frames I am using for plastic if I shift to regular small cell wax foundation?

Yes.

> Third, might I be better off just replacing all my 100 brood frames with the plastic small cell frames?

Why? Why not just put 4.9mm wax in them or starter strips in them?

> Fourth, how shoudl I do this? Should I pull half the frames and place in an every other frame patern or just do one or two at a time?

Personally I would feed them into the brood nest as they seem to be able to handle it. One frame at a time in a medium sized cluster. Not more than two in a strong cluster. None in a really small cluster.

Some people do a shakedown and remove all the large cell comb.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm
http://www.beesource.com/pov/lusby/index.htm
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Organicbeekeepers
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

[eric101]

> Why? Why not just put 4.9mm wax in them or starter strips in them?

Well it looks like I can get the plastic frames from Mann Lake for $1.10 each and small cell foundation from Dadante for $0.71 a sheet. The cost is about $20 extra and all I have to do is pop out the old frame and pop in the new ones. No wiring involved. If I went with starter strips it would be much less expensive. Maybe I should try all three and see which takes the best??

Anyway, thanks for the input on changing over a few frames at a time. Am I missing something with the cost/benefit issue?

Eric

[sierrabees]

Why would you pop out the 4.9 plastic foundation from the Mann Lake frames and replace it with wax foundation from Dadant? In the end you would get small cell comb either way except that the comb on the plastic foundation might take a little longer for the bees to draw out but would bee much stronger from the start.

[Michael Bush]

The plastic from Mann Lake is frames, not foundation. No need for wood frames if you use that. The wax from Dadant would go in wood frames.

>If I went with starter strips it would be much less expensive. Maybe I should try all three and see which takes the best??

If you mix them in the same hive, the wax starter strips will get the best acceptance. The real question is which will be the smaller cells. I think you'll find it won't make much difference. The bees will only regress as much as they are ready to.

[kingofbees]

I have received the answer from Mann Lake: "The plastic foundation we carry is 5.1 mm including the cell wall- would that still interest you?

[eric101]

"The plastic foundation we carry is 5.1 mm including the cell wall- would that still interest you?"

Does that mean that their plastic FOUNDATION (as opposed to their plastic FRAMES) are 4.9 not including cell wall? Michael would this give me the small cell effect I am looking for?

I take it the plastic FRAMES are 4.9 including cell wall - right?

Thanks for all the help.

Eric

[Michael Bush]

>I have received the answer from Mann Lake: "The plastic foundation we carry is 5.1 mm including the cell wall- would that still interest you?

I can't say how they are measuring. Correctly you'd measure across ten hrizontally and divide by ten. Trying to accurately measure one cell and include ONE cell wall and not the other (which is what you're doing across ten cell) is very difficult.

The Mann Lake frame I saw a picture of being measured, is 4.9mm.