Bulk pollen substitute

[BjornBee]

I have scanned the 2007 catalogs to find a good source for bulk pollen substitute. I was disappointed to see one of the places I usually buy from, only handles the "feedBee" brand, at a much higher price than I am used to paying. I usually drive and pick-up, and thats not feasible now. So far I have seen.....

Dandant...Feedbee... 44lb bag....82.50

Kelley....Feedbee... 44lb bag....95.00
Pollen sub/soy flour...50lb...30.00

MannLake..Bee-pro....50lb........49.95
Pollen sub+ 50lb.......44.95
Brewers yeast 50lb.....44.95
Irradiated pollen 40lb.68.75

Brushy Mt...Feedbee....40 lb.......85.00
Ener-g-+...50..........55.00

BetterBee Generic Pollen sub. 50lb...49.95

It seems tha makers of Feedbee has done a good marketing job to several of the suppliers. Some no longer carry what they had last year.

Is there anyone else out there that sells pollen sub? What are your experiences with the non-"feedbee" types of substitute? Has anyone had good results with the lower end items like Kelley's Soy flour mix, or betterbee's generic pollen sub? Anyone have any good results mixing a couple types to lower the overall cost?

I am leaning towards something from Mannlake as they also have at least 4 kinds of pollen sub. patties. Anyone use the mannlake stuff to comment on?

Thank you.

[ February 02, 2007, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: BjornBee ]

[fat/beeman]

hey
this is the first yr trying bags from mann lake. I bought 2 bags of it bee pro I mixed up several batches to see if bees would take it. they seem to eat it but little slow. I have a recipe for the sub some where from another source made frome soy flour and yeast vitiam C few other things. its here some where if I can find it I;ll post it.
I live in area where pollen comes in early never needed it but just was trying to get a edge on queen rearing.

[Sundance]

Give B&B Honey Farms a jingle. Not sure
what they are handling now.

5917 Hop Hollow Rd
Houston, MN
(507) 896-3955

[AstroZomBEE]

We jumped on the feedbee bandwagon as well, but we don't think we are seeing results that warrant the high price though. I believe we will be going back to bee pro once my supply is used up.

[drobbins]

I thought global patties were the rage these days :rolleyes:

Dave

[Sundance]

ahhhhhh turn that frown upside down Dave.

Mann Lake is selling a product simular to
Globals now. I am going to give them a go
when my Globals are gone. Shipping is a
killer on the Globals.

[BjornBee]

Who sells global?

[Sundance]

Global is made in Canada. Here's a link.
Mann Lakes are copies IMO as they also
incorporate pollen as an option.

http://www.globalpatties.com/

[BeeRay]

I think I am going to try Diamond V yeast culture this year: http://www.diamondv.com/products/yc.html It is a baker's yeast used as livestock supplement. It is available at the local feed store for about $11.50 per 50# bag.

[Yuleluder]

How many global patties are in 50 pounds?

[DChap]

the global pattiea are one pound each

Blessed Bee
Doug

[Ian]

I use the Global patties, with pollen. The bees eat them alright.
But I dont feed the patties to build bees on, I only feed one patty in the spring, to get the first hatch through bad weather.
Not sure if there is enough pollen in the patty to build brood,.?

[swarm_trapper]

so do your hives get pollen subs in the spring Ian?

[Ian]

Yes, but just one patty. I think it helps nurish the young emerging bees, that get caught emerging in a cold spell.
Building brood take much more than one pound patty.
I set our soyflour mix in the spring to keep them busy, and out of the neighbours hair, and feed troughs. Probably 1/2-3/4 bag per yard of 32 hives. But again, I dont think it really does much to brood up the hive, but rather gets the bees ready working for poplar blooms to hit.

[WG Bee Farm]

Global Patties in 60# boxes is available on the East Coast @
WG Bee Farm
Eden, NC
336-635-5821
4% pollen irradated
$2.00 each plus S&H
60# box (60 patties) $90.00 plus S&H
1000 # or more $80.00 per box plus S&H
Pallet approx 1800# $1.04/lb plus shipping
5000# or more 1.00 per lb. plus S&H
This pollen suppliment will rear brood. I have used this for the last five years with great success.
The bees will continue to consume this pollen patty even when natural pollen starts to come in.
It can also be added to nuc's or packages for a jump start.
3-4 patties on a hive will boast them to the point that splitting is "necessary".
Contact me with your e-mail and I will send you additional information on this product.
Thanks
Frank Wyatt
Eden, NC

[ February 06, 2007, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: WG Bee Farm ]

[jean-marc]

Why would anyone purchase a pollen substitute when irradiated bee pollen is available at $68.75 for forty pounds? I mean this is the real thing, not a substitute. the price seems very reasonable.

Jean-Marc

[Ian]

Very interesting point jean-marc, even making a 40-50 mix. Then the bees would really blast through the patty smile.gif
I would expect the pollen to be imported from China?

[swarm_trapper]

how would the natural pollen mixed 50/50 with bee pro or somthing else work?

[Michael Bush]

>how would the natural pollen mixed 50/50 with bee pro or somthing else work?

It works great. I've done it with the dry pollen substitute that Brushy Mt sells and with expeller processed soy flour. Both have worked well. 100% pollen is best if you can get enough.

[jean-marc]

Ian:

At that price you can bet it is from China. With pollen bees devour the patties. As the pollen % increases so does the rate of consumption. More pollen = more bees.

Jean-Marc

[Jim Fischer]

jean-marc, I'm interested in your comment about
"irradiated bee pollen"...

What risk is thought to be carried by trapped
pollen, given that the pollen is trapped before
the forager bees enter the hive?

[BjornBee]

Jim,

I think some of the comments come from "urban legend" type stuff and from the marketing of pollen from the suppliers themselves.

I'll use 2007 MannLake catalog page 41 as example. It states as part of the promotion for Bee-Pro, "Bee-Pro is free of contaminants. Natural pollens may contain pesticide residue and desease carrying bacteria(Foulbrood)".

As a side note, on the very next page, they also sell natural pollen. But it is "irradiated" to "protect against deseases" as commented in the item description.

I have even read just recently somewhere a comment about AFB spores being transferred and picked up from flowers as part of a promotion or marketing. I have read so much lately, I am not sure where I read that, but I'll look. But I can see how anyone reading such comments can come to the conclusions and pass along these ideas.

[Michael Bush]

>What risk is thought to be carried by trapped
pollen, given that the pollen is trapped before
the forager bees enter the hive?

I use it all the time and certainly don't irradiate it, but to play the devil's advocate the argument I've heard is that in an AFB infected hive, the bees will be trying to haul OUT scale and dead larvae and that will have to go through the pollen trap.

[Aspera]

I would be very interested in any published studies that anyone has on pollen feeding and AFB transmission. I think that the pesticides are not yet much of an issue, but would be very concerned about introducing AFB into my otherwise clean apiary. I have purchased pollen from Brushy for use as a yogurt topping, but am very, very reluctant to give it to bees do to what I read in "Fat Bee/Skinny Bee" and the Beekeeper's Handbook.

[Jim Fischer]

> the argument I've heard is that in an AFB infected
> hive, the bees will be trying to haul OUT scale
> and dead larvae and that will have to go through
> the pollen trap.

Well, let's take the "Sundance" trap sold by
Lloyd Spear as an example - exiting bees use
one-way escape cones, which are not over the
pollen collection area. Any stuff falling off
them would land on a solid wood strip, and not
into the pollen drawer. And who says that
irradiation would somehow decontaminate pollen
that has been contaminated with pesticides?

Pollen substitutes are, for the most part,
soy-based, and soy is certainly treated with
pesticides too, so I smell the strong odor
of marketing hype here.

> I would be very interested in any published
> studies that anyone has on pollen feeding and
> AFB transmission.

So would I. I do know that studies done on the
general subject of AFB transmission have NOT
mentioned pollen as a viable source, in fact,
these studies have consistently showed that
the exchange of brood frames between hives is
about the only way to infect hives. Certainly
there is a risk from a dead-out being robbed,
but even that risk did not compare to the
exchange of brood frames.

[Ian]

Jean-Marc,

What recipe do you follow making your patties, and how much of it do you put on your hives?
I would think a mix off with soyflour and HFCS would make a firmer easier to use patty, and slow the consumtion down a bit.

[Ian]

>>I would be very interested in any published studies that anyone has on pollen feeding and AFB transmission.

Shouldnt be an issue if the pollen is irradiated.

[Aspera]

Yes, well neither is transferring brood combs if they are irradiated. Feeding honey and pollen are often cited as modes of transmission. If no one knows of a good study, or has been personally "burnt" then we are still just conjecturing.

[jean-marc]

I mix about 50% bee pollen on the dry with brewers yeast. Mix syrup till it's the right consistency. I'll feed 3-10 pounds per hive in the spring depends on their strength. More hives are in the upper range.

Lately I've taken to placing the granules of pollen into one side of a frame and pouring thined out syrup so they process the pollen.On good hives I'll give them 2 frames (only 1 side each). I'll give 2 heaping handfulls per frame and that kinda fills them pretty much. About 2 days later the bees have processed the pollen (turned it into bee bread). It's kinda slow but I feel it's better than patties.

Jean-Marc

[Ian]

Interesting idea jean-marc! I can see how it would take some time.
Who do you buy your pollen from?

[jean-marc]

I get it from a fellow in Alberta. He gets it from Elyse Gagnon of ODEM. It comes from China in 20 kg boxes. It gets irradiated at Iotron in Port Coquitlam, B.C. I happen to live 1/2 hour away, so it is very easy and the freight does not hurt me. I get together with 2 other beekeepers to make a fairly large order.

Jean-Marc

[Ian]

How large of an order do you need to get your price?
I am thinking about doing as you are. I know of a few beekeepers here who have been trying to get pollen in from the US, but cant becasue of some restriction I dont understand.
The stuff comes in from China anyway.
How long does it take to recieve shippment?

[jean-marc]

Ian I will send you a pm.

Jean-Marc

[jean-marc]

Oops, I know how to reply to a PM, but I do not know how to send one. Can some-one help me?

The restriction is because you want bee feed pollen. It has to be irradiated. It's kinda costly with freight, cause it has to go to a certified irradiation plant (Iotron and I think there is one in Ontario). It has to be packed in the right kind of box to minimize the cost of irradiation.

There are no restrictions on human consumption of bee pollen but it has to be packed in consummer sized packaging. So if you buy a say 1000 pounds of pollen in 50 pound boxes a governement official might question your pollen consumption. The conversation might go along the lines of: "Well Mr Ian, most folks usually buy there bee pollen in 500 g jars ..., what's going on here?"

Takes 6 weeks to get here. i orderes some for a buddy who has run out of money. I have 1500 extra kilos or so kicking around here.

Jean-Marc

[jean-marc]

Ok, I just figured out how to PM. I may be slow, but not stupid.

Jean-Marc

[Aspera]

Hey, I just found this link to MS University website:

http://www.msstate.edu/Entomology/newsletters/beenews0107.htm

They cite a 1981 ABJ paper saying that honey, wax and pollen (in that order) all carry infectious spores.