Beginner Question

[beestudent]

I am a college student and wish to do an experiment with bees (no bees will be harmed). I was curious how small a hive I could start out with? Any help would be great.

[Michael Bush]

I depends on the experiment and the time of year. A ball of bees the size of a softball with a queen will do well if it's past the cold part of spring but early in the year (May around here would be good). They wouldn't make it through the winter right now. They would do best in a nuc though. If you build a three frame nuc and buy a one frame feeder (brushy mt and betterbee make some that only take up a true one frame) you could put a handful of bees in with syrup in the feeder and they would get started. Of course they would soon be too crowded and swarm.

[beestudent]

Well right now, the plan is to have the bees in an indoor observation hive. I guess the other question my advisor had, was whether I would need a queen for the hive since this isn't going to be a long-term hive. And if I do need a queen, is there a way I could keep the hive from growing too large.

[ikeepbees]

What's the experiment? Help us help you. Tell us what you're doing. An experiment on an observation hive without a queen? Experiments with observation hives are suspect to begin with because they are usually started artificially in the spring. They do not behave as an established colony would normally act. Add to that a no queen condition and I have to ask what are you looking for? Unless you want to document how an unnaturaly started artificial swarm behaves in a less than optimum (volume) cavity when there is no queen present (again, unnatural), you may be barking up the wrong tree.

------------------
Rob Koss

[beestudent]

Well right now I am still researching and trying to figure out a question to answer. I am starting to lean toward some sort of a color selection experiment, too see what colors (if any) bees prefer. Of course I still need to do a lot of research, but I am just trying to figure out if I can keep the hive small scale.

[Michael Bush]

Without a queen they will give up all hope and start drifting immediately. How quickly the bees dissipate will depend on how many there are and how close they find other bees with a queen. If you buy some Bee Boost (Queen Mandibular Pheromone) from Mann Lake or whoever and add a little lemongrass oil or swarm lure, you can probably keep them for some time queenless. I had a nuc with both of these in it out by my hives to catch swarms and about 15 or 20 bees moved in and lived there for a couple of months without a queen.

I’d say a half pound of bees is about minimum for an observation hive. Any less and they lose hope. I would recommend a queen. I think Walter T. Kelly sells a halfpound package for observation hives. They also have inexpensive one frame observation hives.

[Michael Bush]

The best questions to answer are the ones we don't know the answers to. Especially the ones we NEED to know the answers to.

[skruzich]

Instead of putting all that work in a temporary hive, why not build one to observe that you can take home with ya and start your own hives to keep. http://www.beesource.com/ubb/wink.gif
steve

[GAbee]

If you kept an unusually small hive, or a hive without a queen, IMHO your research on bees in general would be flawed. That is, the hives most beekeepers use are somewhat unatural as is. Observation hives are even more unatural. If you manipulated this further by trying to keep a hive without a queen, the life-force behind the hive, or an extremely small hive, what could your conclusions really be based on? Definitely not natural bee behavior, you would be dealing with bees in an extremely stressed out state. Again, IMHO you would need to conduct your research in a "proper" bee field, with many "natural" hives, this would be the best way for you to reach any sort of reasonable conclussion like color preference, etc.

[This message has been edited by GAbee (edited October 23, 2003).]

[Daisy]

I agree with Gabee.

Red is invisible for them. If you put red cardboard over most of their entrance they'll bump into it thinking they are walking inside the hive.

I know they get nervous when I move about the hive while wearing dark clothing. So black and dark brown blobs they don't like. I think it's instinct against predators.

They are attracted to tiny dots or forms. They inspect tiny contrasted colors. So hugh variations in hughs will draw their attention to inspect.

Find someone in your area who has hives, put our experiment materials close by, wear something solid and light colored, have a seat with your documenting materials and enjoy. Add some scents and you'll get quite a show.

I have a mo moo type covering that is very colorful, there are places that have sheen to it, they love inspecting this when I wear it. They think it's one big flower.

Think flowers. They love the shapes and colors of flowers.

[beestudent]

Thanks for all the help everyone! So I do need a queen, and an observation hive may not be the way to go with this. I may have some more questions as the experiment takes shape. Thanks again!

[dickm]

First read what's been done so that you don't reinvent the wheel. What level are you working at. High school, college, Graduate school? Generally the best chance you have of making a contribution is if you think small. Be a pebble picker not a boulder thrower. Bees live by smell. There have been some efforts made to use them to find land mines. Explosives in airports is another place...because they can smell them. Read Frisch. (SP)Find out if they can discriminate between lavender and violets for instance. (The colors or the aromas). Have some fun but be careful. A lot of us got hooked into an addiction just by smelling around the edges!

Dickm

[beekeeper28]

What is your Major? Is this study going to be tied to your major? For example my degree is in Construction Management. If I was going to do a study on bees for a required class that was not related to my major I would tie the two together and study the structural abilities of the wax comb... the design... energy requirements in constructing... on and on yet it would connect with my major field of study as well. If you are going to do an experiment do a practical one. One that would benefit you and maybe others. Don't take it as just an unrelated assignment. Anyway welcome to the group - you might as well look at some supplier catologs because you have a new hobby that will last a while.....(you have been officially hived now it is just a matter of time to see if you stay put of if you abscond.)

[This message has been edited by beekeeper28 (edited October 24, 2003).]

[beegee]

I agree with some of the otehrs that without a large enough sample for data collection, the experiment is on a faulty premise. Beyond that, unless you are an expereinced beekeeper, you will find that your own interaction and lack of skill will skew any results.

I'd suggest that you contact a large apiary, if your college doesn't have an ag department, and see if you could run your experiment with their bees. Otherwise, you will have the double burden of learning beekeeping(a life-long pursuit)and observing bee behavior without knowing what is, or is not, "normal"

It sounds to me like you may need to think this through a little more in detail. There have been numerous experiments with the ways bees recognize colors and shapes. I'm thinking you'd have better success if your research developed out of questions that occurred while beekeeping, instead of trying to develop beekeeping as part of your research.