a wicked stupid question

[hummingberd]

Hey guys-

How could I guage how friendly or mean my bees are? I read a post on don the bee man's bees. People talk of this mystical land in Georgia where you can go and work with bees in the rain completely bare skinned. That being "said" I wear a full suit every time I check my bees. I'm so afraid of being stung I can't even tell you. I have been stung before, and it's not even that it hurts that bad, but I just have this irrational fear...I can't explain it. It's getting better. The more I work with my bees the more confindence I get, but my bees have displayed some behavior that makes me think I wouldn't want to work with them without my suit...Ever! The things I notice are:

-there is always at least one guard be that comes out to see what I'm doing no matter what is going on! It flys and punches at my veil bouncing off of it and buzzing loudly.

-In warm weather, I have had to walk 2-300 feet before I can get them to stop doing what I described above.

-I have not been stung in my suit yet, but I wear very thick clothes underneath. Something I know I'm not going to be able to do next summer. Weather is usually pretty mild here in Maine, but during the months of July and August we get lots of days in the 80's and 90's and that ain't gonna work.

-a bee chased and stung one of my chickens that was about 15 feet from the hive. She may have deserved it...not sure

:confused: My husband goes to the hive and stand there in his t-shirt and jeans with no protective gear. He doesn't handle the bee equipment like I do, but he doesn't get stung either. He seems to have this sixth sense and knows when the bees are aggravated. I always think they are! The buzzing sound freaks me out!

I want to have the confidence to work with bees without protective gear, just like at don's farm. I know that I can do some experiments with breeding. I'm wondering if I should requeen in the summer from Don's supply. But I don't want to kill a perfectly healthy queen for no reason. Please tell me what you think of all of this.

Thanks guys. :confused:

[hummingberd]

here's the link to the post I referenced
http://www.beesource.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=005108

[iddee]

I think your biggest problem is that you are human. Complicated by being a normal human. Keep working your bees in full suit. Soon you will find a reason to remove a glove, then two. Then you will decide you can check their flight pattern from 20 ft. away without suit. Then 10, then 5, ETC. Within a couple of years you will also be able to "read" the bee's attitude and know what you can and cannot do. Be patient, it will come with experience.

[Sundance]

If they are consistently "bumping" you
as you approach I would re-queen. This
behavior should not be tolerated.

Check for a reason they may be upset. Like
a skunk harassing the colony. If there is
no logical reason for longer term aggression
then kill the old queen and re-queen.

With the info you've given it sounds like
a re-queening is in order. I would recommend
a NWC queen for your area.

Re-queening is not a waste of money really,
it's money well spent IMO. A gentle, productive
queen will more than offset the cost.

For a suit, you can not beat the Golden Bee
Suit. Spendy to be sure, but ventilated and
virtually sting proof.

Working bees nearly naked is often (and
wrongly) touted as a measure of your skill
at beekeeping. Like if you can't work them
naked you are unskilled. Of course it goes
without saying that skill and your movements
will dictate the degree of nastiness you
encounter. But, many skilled beekeepers will
not go without a suit or at least a veil
and smoker.

Good luck..

[WG Bee Farm]

I started keeping bees in 1980.
I wear a full suit and veil. The only concession is I usually don't wear gloves, but I have them in my back pocket.
Sometimes, the bees just don't want to be bothered. There is nothing wrong with wearing PPE
(Personel Protective Equipment)
Frank

[peggjam]

Are you putting on some stink-pretty stuff? They may be objecting to the smell. I go al-natural most of the time, very rarely use anything that has an odor to it, for just that reason.

[kensfarm]

Being a newbee too.. I always wear my suit if I'm working the hives.

I can stand by the hives and watch the activity no problems.. check sticky boards.. even peak in at the feeders. But.. if I've worked the hive one day and the bees were defensive.. just going to the hive to look the next day may invoke a response from some of the bees.. waiting several days.. the bee's revert to their normal defensiveness.

Can bee's sense human fear.. I'd say no.. but they probably can tell the difference in the body's reaction from the fear. Higher body temp.. more carbon dioxide released from breathing heavier.. more body odor.. jerky movements.

I think I'd be more afraid of being naked around the chickens then the bees! smile.gif

[honigbiene]

At the annual Michigan Beekeepers Association meeting in October, we were given drier sheets, like Bounce, at the registration table. Later, we were told that if we fasten the drier sheet to the bottom of the bee veil below the neck, bees wouldn't come near. I haven't tried this trick yet, so I can't vouch for its effectiveness, but this could be a stink-pretty item that repels rather than maddens the bees.

[honeyman46408]

"we were given drier sheets, like Bounce, at the registration table. Later, we were told that if we fasten the drier sheet to the bottom of the bee veil below the neck, bees wouldn't come near. I haven't tried this trick yet, so I can't vouch for its effectiveness,"

I have heard this about biteing insects over and over, if it was true and my wife dries my cloths with them in the drier why dont they work that way?

I have tried them in my pocket for biteing insects=DONT WORK FOR ME and the bees will head but me when they wont bother any one else.

"My husband goes to the hive and stand there in his t-shirt and jeans with no protective gear."

So IMO requeening wouldnt help.

Just my 2 cents

[marcelodelfiore]

I know several beekeepers are proud of never using PPE, but it is a big risk. Even gentle bees have stings !

But it is my PERSONAL guessing, based only on personal several experiences, that they are able to "smell" (I'm not sure if this term is appropriate) adrenaline at our blood stream, if we are afraid of getting stung for example.

[power napper]

My bees are most of the time extremely gentle and forgiving. However when my one brother in law comes within a hundred feet of the hives the girls are bumping him, even if a flow is on. I wonder what the bees smell on him. No other person that ever visited has caused this behavior. Could it be the fear factor!

[Kelbee]

I'm a newbie and I think have fairly gentle bees. I can usually walk up and stand right next to the hives to observe their activities. "Usually" doesn't mean always, though. I've been stung 2-3 times doing just that. I understand and respect the "head butt" but have found that's not completely reliable, and haven't yet developed my other senses. I got cocky for a while and worked my hives several times gloveless. Then one day got stung twice so abandoned that practice.
I don't mind the intial pain from a sting but I do dislike the swelling and itching that follows for the next several days. Every time I've been stung I've regretted not "gowning up" and vowed not to neglect it again. I figure those folks who work their hives without protection don't mind getting stung occasionally. I'd prefer to never get stung (if that's possible for a beek), and have determined that the 2 minutes it takes to don my PPE is time well spent.

[scb]

No PPE as a rule is right up there with "Hold my beer and watch this".

[Craig W.]

I wear a full suit each time also, not because of my bees, but the chance one day the queen might be superseded without my knowledge and by a AHB.

[hobbee]

I wear a veil to inspect my hives, used to wear nothing but then I got stung right below the eye and looked like quasimoto for a week. I will wear a suit for a full tear down on a robust hive though.

[Carolina-Family-Farm]

I wrote about the trip Little John and I made to Don's and I was really surprised at how he worked his bees without any PPE.

I also realized two things that I may have failed to mention.

( 1.) Don has 50+ years of experience and honestly I believe that many years of experience turns beekeeping into an art form. It's worth the trip to watch someone with that many years under his belt work a hive. I drove 6 hours each way and enjoyed every minute of it.
Since that trip I've met several beekeepers with a fair number of years of experience working hives without PPE. One guy local to me is 75 years old and works 200 hives without any PPE, I've seen him take several stings in his hands and he never flinches a muscle or brakes the slow steady stream of movements he makes while working inside a hive.

( 2.) Don is a queen breeder and he knows the breed he has developed very well, the 75 year old local gentleman is also a breeder of queens and out of 200 hives he pointed out the one with the most gentle queen last year and explained to me why he wanted to use her as one of his breeders for that year.

I work some hives with nothing and some I use the PPE. Sometimes it's a little more than just good natured bees when it comes to working without any PPE but it wouldn't be very wise to try it without a gentle race.

Even the best hives can be aggressive under the right conditions, learning not to jerk and jump when a few of the girls gives it to you is a challenge that seems to take time to acquire. Bees that are always head butting or chasseing after you several hundred feet are not what I want in my yard. Beekeeping should be enjoyable according to Don and hot bees sure take the joy out of it fast.

[Kelbee]

Fascinating topic. Clearly there are 2 schools here. Those of us who don't want to be stung, and those who don't mind being stung. I'd equate this to most women who choose epidural anesthesia to reduce the pain of childbirth. Other women choose to go "natural" and endure the pain. I'm not a female, but given a choice between pain or no pain, I'd take the epidural.

[sierrabees]

All my life I have made my living working with animals. Something I learned was that regardless of species animals react differently to different people. Sometimes an individual animal will react to one person and not to another the same way. Sometimes the same animal will change how it reacts to the same people. Fear almost always results in an attack or at least agressive behavior. Eventually, as your fear subsides you probably will find it easier to work the bees, but everything can change in a nanosecond. There are many factors involved in aggresive behavior in your bees such as time of year, presence or absense of a nector flow, how recently you have robbed the hives to extract honey, the weather, wild critters bothering the hive, robbing by othere bees, how many nearby hives you have worked before you open the one in question, and on and on. As you develope a feel for these factors you will be able to guage how much protection you need on a given day. (by the way, I have no idea if the phase of the moon is a factor but it wouldn't suprise me)

Before you get too brave I would like to pass on what my brother in law told me in the 1950's when I was all hyped up on getting a motercycle. "Bikes are the greatest thrill since apple pie, but if you ever think you know how to ride one you better sell it quick while you are still alive."

[wayacoyote]

Hummingberd,
I'll go with the no-smelly stuff suggestion.
There is one article I've read of a beekeeper who only bred from his hives that were the most docile. In due time, he had bees that were little angels!

My girlfriend's father always get stung through his protective gear by one hive that she and I can work without gear. Strange, eh?
Waya

[honeyman46408]

"My girlfriend's father always get stung through his protective gear by one hive that she and I can work without gear. Strange, eh?"

Now that is what I`m talkin bout
;)

[tecumseh]

some years back when I was doing the commercial beekeeping gig we noticed that almost every newbee beekeeper that the boss hired always had the fantasy that they would never be stung. but really the sting is a bit hyped up, don't you thing??? for sure the first .2 cm is real but the remaining 2 inch is largely a fantasy.

over time with continued exposure to bee stings the swelling and itching 'almost' disapprears. so that factor is less of a concern. I would also think that learning to smoke the bees in a proper manner (and keeping the smoker lit) is much more important than most folks might think. learning to know when to give the girls another puff does take some practice (and I would think a good ear).

[Aspera]

It is good not to be stung, and gentle bees are also a good thing. It is not reasonable to keep bees and fear one or two stings when robbing multiple colonies. If you really are bothered by the idea, then take a benadryl, grab one of the little ladies and sting yourself. This will allow you to see if it is really all that you dread.

"Dreading is worse than doing"

[BjornBee]

Go from a full bee suit, to a jacket. Then go from a jacket to a veil. Go from full leather gloves to latex surgical gloves. Then go from latex gloves to no gloves at all.

Have most beekeepers worked a hive without equipment? I am sure the percentage is high. The right bees, the right flow, the right time of year...makes it a good experience when it can happen.

Building confidence takes time. Sometimes it just takes an amount of stings to get comfortable with realizing it not a big deal.

There is also a learning curve in reading the bees. I can tell pretty much right away if its going to be a bad day. Taking the top off the hive and reading the bees initial reaction tells you whether to proceed with no protection.

There is a smooth, confident way of handling bees. And there is also a proper way to smoke the bees. Proper handling and smoking the bees probably eliminate 95% of the stinging factor.

When I handle bees for people who are coming to pick up nucs, usually nothing is worn. The smaller nucs are easy to handle. But although I have been stung thousands of times, when I work my field production hives, I'll where a jacket, and many time put on a surgical gloves. I am there to get a job done, and sometimes its in a hurry.

A sting on the lip, eye area, or one in the ear still hurt no matter how many times I get stung.

[LaRae]

Hi hummingberd,

I am thinking your bees know you are afraid of them. I think it makes sense that bees can smell/sense the adreneline when a person is nervous/scared.

This is my 2nd year of beekeeping so I'm pretty new at this too smile.gif I routinely stand outside the entrance of my hives (no protective gear) and watch the bees come and go...they ignore me for the most part..now and then one will buzz around me to check me out but I ignore them and keep watching. I think watching them helps me to learn about their habits/patterns.

If I open the hive up, I always wear headgear but so far I have not had to wear gloves or a bee suit. I've been stung twice so far. Once was my fault because I didn't know the bee was on my leg walking around and I bent over, pinching her so she got me!

One of the things I insist on are gentle bees. I don't care how productive XYZ breed of bees are, if they are tempermental I don't want them...I'll just have more hives to offset the loss of production..that's as good as an excuse as any to justify more hives :D

Is there another beekeeper near you? It might help you to gain some confidence if you go over and watch them work their bees..maybe even help them...I don't think any beekeeper will turn down free help smile.gif

If it turns out that you do have tempermental bees then just get you something like a NWC and re-queen. I have NWC and Russians. My Russians (they come from the mystical land of Georgia) are a little more curious about what you are doing around the hive but they are pretty gentle. The NWC are very gentle.


LaRae

[iddee]

Well, even tho SCB has made the statement that I am both drunk and stupid when I work my bees without PPE, I will still try to say again.
Each of us are different, and each of us will change over the years. If you are comfortable with full suit and gloves, by all means wear them. Most beeks will wear less and feel more comfortable around the bees after a few years of playing with them.
The only thing that applies to all is, "be safe and have fun".
All else is personal preference and should be controlled only by you and yourself, not others.

[Ravenseye]

I've been stung a few times this year, all at the very end of the fall. I do the stupid guy thing. I open and work the hive with no PPE. Then, when I get nailed, I trudge into the barn, grab the veil or jacket and head back out cursing myself for being thick headed. I've never worn gloves but suppose I should find out where I put them. I suppose it'll take one bad day to convince me that I should suit up first. I have to admit, I like just being side to side with them and not having the safety net of a barrier to protect me. I'll learn!

[dickm]

Dons bees are no different than any others. When I was with him, he got stung near the eye. working without a veil is neccessary for some queen rearing jobs.

Dickm

[Michael Bush]

>working without a veil is neccessary for some queen rearing jobs.

Not in my opinion.

[Brent Bean]

One question I always get asked is, do you ever get stung? And I always reply yes but not often. I don’t particularly like getting stung but I’m not afraid of getting stung. You know your not afraid when you are working the bees and get stung and you just mumble something and not jump around.
Try working your bees without gloves, smoke your hands first and you will find that most days you won’t get stung, this will help you get over the fear of getting stung and will help you learn the mood of the bees. You can take a sting on the hand easier than a more sensitive area of the body. I will start without gloves and if I take a few stings I will put them on. Get yourself a beekeeping jacket they are a lot cooler to work in and easier to put on. Other than pulling honey or working the bees on days I know they will be nasty this is what I mostly wear.
Make sure your suit is clean, if you let your suit get too stinky with body odor this will cause your bees to show more aggression toward you.
Don’t worry about what other beekeepers are wearing when they work their bees wear what puts you at ease in working your bees. And the experience will be more enjoyable.

[hummingberd]

Wow! I never would have imagined that such a "stupid" question would invoke such great responses! Thanks to everyone for your input. I wanted to add a little history to my story. I do not have lots of stinky smell good stuff on. This is kinda funny, but I don't even wear deodorant often because my underarms don't ever get smelly. I know you're all laughing saying "yeah right" but I have gotten outside concensus on this. all of my soap and shampoo are unscented because I have sensitive skin. The only thing that is scented is my toothpaste, but I don't go out to the hive just after brushing anyway, so I doubt this is it.
The other thing I didn't mention is that I don't smoke my bees. The one time I did, the smoke got in my eyes, mouth and nose, and I suffered the whole time. I got to thinking, if I don't like this, the girls can't like it either. I did some research. Turns out it might not be so good for the bees after all. Also, I got my hive very late in the season that I didn't want to set them back at all.
I'm still interested in hearing what people think so keep posting and have your friends post too. I do think it's interresting that the hubby doesn't get bothered by them. I do go near the hive, and several times I did go out to the hive this fall to do small tasks like replace the pail feeder and just to sit and observe. I wasn't bothered by the bees at all. I like the suggestions that I should spend some time with local beekeepers. any one have any suggestions on how I can do this without posting a personals add? thanks! smile.gif

[hummingberd]

by the way, two of my favorite quotes so far...

scb

No PPE as a rule is right up there with "Hold my beer and watch this".

hobbee
Field Bee

I wear a veil to inspect my hives, used to wear nothing but then I got stung right below the eye and looked like quasimoto for a week.

[paulka]

I never thought of calling a bee suit "Personal Protective Equipment" but I guess it is.

This reminds me of a "special meeting" we had a work once on "Person Protection Devices".The consultant that gave the lecture was so vauge that after the hour-long meeting was over and we were leaving many of us weren't sure if the woman was talkiong about Guns or Condoms!!!

Paul

[sierrabees]

<I like the suggestions that I should spend some time with local beekeepers. any one have any suggestions on how I can do this without posting a personals add? thanks!>

There has to be a local beekeeping assosiation somewhere in your area. Sometimes they have a listing in the phone book.

[Ravenseye]

Try the Maine State Beekeepers Association. Look at their board, their chapters and their contact sheet on the web. Lots of names and phone numbers. I don't know if they have any meetings as far south as you but any of those folks, especially the inspector, can likely put you in touch with a local beek. Looks like an active association, which is great.

[hummingberd]

Ravenseye-

ummm....yeah, thanks for that. Don't know why I didn't think of that before! I went to their website, and plan on becoming a member in January! Plus I discovered that the honeybee is the state of maine insect! Great idea!

[hummingberd]

Ravenseye-

ummm....yeah, thanks for that. Don't know why I didn't think of that before! I went to their website, and plan on becoming a member in January! Plus I discovered that the honeybee is the state of maine insect! Thanks for the great AND obvious idea!

[Brent Bean]

Hummingberd:
If your not smoking your bees that is why you receive so much aggressive attention, if the smoke bothers you try different fuels. I am fond of cedar chips, it’s easy to start and makes a cool white smoke, it really don’t hurt the bees, as a matter of fact in the age of mites is good for them, the smoke dislodges many mites where they fall threw the screen bottom board.
When I give lectures to local schools, kids ask why do you smoke the bees. There are several reasons. 1) it masks the attack pheromone by the guard bees, 2) it causes the other workers to gorge on honey, they do this in case the house is really on fire and they need to abscond, this also pacifies them.
If you can’t stand the smoke because it makes you sick try using liquid smoke, I think 90% of your aggression problem is your not smoking them prior to manipulation. There are two essential tools to work honeybees, you hive tool and your smoker.
Keeping the bees pacified while your work them is good for the hive moral and makes working the bees more enjoyable.

[ December 10, 2006, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Brent Bean ]

[Fusion_power]

I couldn't agree more about the necessity of using smoke. The only thing I would add is to use smoke in moderation and use it at the right time. I can usually open a colony and inspect all frames in a brood chamber with less than 12 puffs of smoke. The exception to this is during the mid-summer drought when all the colonies are on the defensive and may need 50 or more puffs for the same inspection.

One of the keys to smoke use is to watch and listen to the bees. When you see large numbers of bees looking up at you from between the top bars and when you hear the high pitched buzzing sound they make, its time for some smoke.

The interesting thing about listening to your bees is that you can tell when they are content, hungry, irritable, queenless, broodless, etc.

I normally work my bees in a tee shirt and jeans. I keep a veil handy because there are times it is needed, but I don't wear it unless the bees are very difficult to work. I don't mind getting stung, just don't like getting it in the face or ear.


Fusion

[Brent Bean]

Fusion_power:
Excellent points, and your observation are in the bulls eye. But if you are constantly being distracted by getting stung it’s hard to hear the differences in hive sound.

[tecumseh]

fusion power adds:
One of the keys to smoke use is to watch and listen to the bees. When you see large numbers of bees looking up at you from between the top bars and when you hear the high pitched buzzing sound they make, its time for some smoke.

tecumseh replies:
well fusion's ear has been tuned in to the girl's frequency.

in regards to smokin' the girls... at one end of the spectrum is 'give'em a puff'and on the other end is 'smok'em till they choke'. most of the times a puff is all that is necessary. if you desire to drive the bees or queen the latter is the proper approach.

the type of smoker fuel you use is also important. for example... I use a bit of residue from wax rendering which make the smoke cooler and much more agreeable to the girls. a hotter and more offensive smoke (say pure pine straw) may actually make the girls angry and disagreeable. as fusion power suggested... with practice and a good ear you can hear the girl's mood.

[sierrabees]

I can usually hear amd interpret that angry buzzing sound best when the lady is sitting right on my earlobe, and I've never learned to get a veil on quick enough to prevent the resulting swollen ear. Must be old age and being hearing compromised.

[dickm]

We've been saying that bees are pacified by smoke so long, that we believe it. The data is that they become less aggressive. That's all we know. Here's some more data but I can't remember the source. EAS probably.
When the antenna (The smelling apparatus)of the bee, is subjected to smoke it flatlines for 1/2 hr or so. Smoking bees is a little like blinding them.

Dickm

[dickm]

We've been saying that bees are pacified by smoke so long, that we believe it. The data is that they become less aggressive. That's all we know. Here's some more data but I can't remember the source. EAS probably.
When the antenna (The smelling apparatus)of the bee, is subjected to smoke it flatlines for 1/2 hr or so. Smoking bees is a little like blinding them.

Dickm

[Brent Bean]

Dickm:

Your splitting hairs on the terminology. Webster’s definition of pacify is 1. to ease the anger or distress of 2. To end war or violence. The use of smoke to ease aggression, or to pacify. Are both correct.
When a beekeeper opens a hive this causes distress which increases defensive aggression.

[hummingberd]

ok, a quick update today. It's about 60 deg. (after about a week of freezing weather 20deg.) and I decided to feed the bees some sugar syrup. I planned on going out with just a t-shirt and jeans, but I opened the door and could see there was lots of activity. I retreated back inside, donned the full suit, and headed to the hive. I opened up the hive, and put the feeder in. Wasn't even inspected by a single bee. However when I tried to put the inner cover on, there was chaos. I was squising bees left and right! I didn't have my bee brush with me cuz I'm an idiot, but I tried brushing them off with my gloved hand, that helped but I got at least 5 :( I"m very sad about the loss. Anyway, I finally got both covers back on, and as I was walking away I noticed two stingers stuck in the right hand glove. I couldn't believe it. Its the first time this has happened! My husband bagan to squeeze at the stingers which is frustrating because I know that it will leave all kinds of alarm pheromone on them. I have to figure out a way to gently wash them!

Anyway, my point is I guess the whole suit is about how much you do or do not care about being stung. I can handle the pain, that being stated, I don't like it, and it makes me nervous knowing that one sting could lead to thousands! So, I guess I'll always just wear my suit. I think I'm beginning to realize that my bees seem pretty nice. Which makes me happy smile.gif

[Brent Bean]

Try scraping the stingers off with your finger nail or hive tool this will minimize the amount of venom that you get and removes the stinger easily. And if you took a smoker with you a couple of puffs and the bees would have retreated down into the hive and you would have spared squishing them or yourself receiving a couple of stings.
I would like to say again smoke don’t hurt the bees, I think you would find this thinking is embraced by the vast majority of beekeepers world wide.After all smoke is organic, so it’s not like your adding some sort of chemical.

[ December 14, 2006, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: Brent Bean ]

[Troutsqueezer]

Four hives over two years. All I wear is a light nylon jacket w/veil and some gloves. Nothing else, no tape, no tucking my pants into my boots, nada. Haven't been stung yet. Mostly luck, but paying attention to the weather, the sound of the bees and prudent use of the smoker has played a big role.

[Oldbee]

Hi. Fourty years ago when my parents had bees on our apple orchard I wouldn't come closer than 20 feet to those hives before those "guards" would come out and and hassle me.[I was alot "younger"]then. Now that I have bees by myself, I can go and observe there activities and take photos within 2 feet:[no problem}. Is this all about "genetics" and many years of selection for "gentle" bees? I wore gloves for the first year but I don't anymore because I think I can handle the frames better. I get a few stings but mostly on my hands {Duh}. I have put "cream" on my hands with honey in the ingredients and that seems to work OK. I have a full suit but most of the year I don't use it now; just a White long sleeve shirt and a veil, except when I have to pull supers of honey. Of course I have only 3 hives so I suppose my "obsevations" may be a bit biased? Love the Bees; enjoy Beescource.

[Oldbee]

Hi. Fourty years ago when my parents had bees on our apple orchard I wouldn't come closer than 20 feet to those hives before those "guards" would come out and and hassle me.[I was alot "younger"]then. Now that I have bees by myself, I can go and observe there activities and take photos within 2 feet:[no problem}. Is this all about "genetics" and many years of selection for "gentle" bees? I wore gloves for the first year but I don't anymore because I think I can handle the frames better. I get a few stings but mostly on my hands {Duh}. I have put "cream" on my hands with honey in the ingredients and that seems to work OK. I have a full suit but most of the year I don't use it now; just a White long sleeve shirt and a veil, except when I have to pull supers of honey. Of course I have only 3 hives so I suppose my "obsevations" may be a bit biased? Love the Bees; enjoy Beescource.

[Oldbee]

Sorry for the 2 XX post.

[Bill Ruble]

It is interesting to read how each person handles there bees. I like to use a vail, but I hate to use a suit. In fact, I will not wair a suit period. I do sometimes use gloves but many times I don't even do that. I agree that gentle bees are my highest goal. I can treat mites, I can have more hives for more honey if I have to, but I have no desire to be on guard all the time with hot bees.

That said, I think it is very possible to get bees that are both gentle and at the same time have some resistance to mites. I ordered a breeder queen from Glen's yesterday that is the corodan stain , which is supposed to be very gentle but has had some mite resistance bred in too. We will see what happens. I realize the corodan color is a color gene and not just gentleness, but according to there papers, they are the most gentle of all breeds.
Bill

[Fusion_power]

Are you going to raise queens from your cordovan?

Fusion

[Bill Ruble]

Yes, I plan on it. Going to do my best but have never done it before. And thanks for correcting the spelling of the cordovan.
Bill

[ScadsOBees]

I used to be irrationally afraid of stings, but I'm feeling more and more comfortable as I get them.

And the less afraid I am the easier it gets because I treat them differently, am calmer inside the hive and performing maintenance, less jerkyness and hurrying.

Keep in mind too that the bees also probably recognize you as an intruder, not only from your smell by the smell of your equipment.

The thing that still can cause panic is a bee in the bonnet! When working one of the feistier hive, my son (8 yrs old) got one in his, and his first response was to rip his veil off.
NO! Walk away from the swirling mass of 100's of angry bees before removing your protection because of 1 bee!!!!

-rick

[peggjam]

When I get a bee inside my vail, I simiply reach up and squish it, and go back to work. It never pays to try to get them out of your vail, at that point it is get her, before she gets you!

[Michael Bush]

I've had nice cordovans. I've had mean cordovans. I don't think it's that simple.

[Jim Fischer]

> I simiply reach up and squish it...

Thus tagging yourself with alarm pheromones.
Not a very good approach, in my view.
Better to walk away, and allow the bee to
exit without killing it.

There are lots of problems with bees that can
be best addressed by walking away, and thinking
about what you really need to do when you walk
back to the hive. Its also a good chance to
get a drink of water.

[peggjam]

"Thus tagging yourself with alarm pheromones>"

To each their own, Jim, I haven't ever had a problem with this, and nothing a small puff of smoke won't cure anyway. Much less risky than trying to remove a vail with a bee inside, and who knows how many on the outside. Either way your going to get "tagged", just depends on whether you like pain or not, I guess.

[Janice Lane]

I have had three bees in my veil at one time without getting stung. I just trapped them in part of the mesh...walked away from the hive and then took the veil off while they were still trapped...and they flew away.

However, I have noticed if I do not squish a bee when it flys into my hair...I will definitely get stung. I had a bee get stuck in my hair...I waited for her to free herself and then she came back and stung me on the neck ( I wasn't even working the hives).

[Cyndi]

Yea, like once I was standing near one of my hives drinking a cup of Jasmine Tea with HONEY in it. A bee came over to investigate my cup, and fell in. I scooped her out, saved her life....and she came back and gave me a warning sting on the face...no stinger. They just don't appreciate our efforts do they? :D

[Bill Ruble]

I have them fall in my sugar water bucket while filling feeders all the time. I alway take them out with my fingers and have never had one come back at me or sting me as I helped it out. By that time, they are struggling for there life and seem to forget about stinging.

[Brent Bean]

If I get a bee inside my Vail it’s a guarantee that if I don’t squish it or walk away quickly and get it out I’ll get stung on the nose, never on the ear or cheek just the nose if I didn’t know better would think I have a honeybee bull’s-eye on the nose.

[Fusion_power]

Brent, You do. Its your breath. Bees smell it and go to the source thereof.

Fusion

[Brent Bean]

Fusion_power:

Your right, I thought about sucking on a breath mint but then they would just switch the target to my eye and the nose can recover a lot faster. I can live with my nose running which instantly happens, than my eye swelling shut.

[jdb5949]

Brent,

The bees smell and target the carbon dioxide in our breath. Many bee predators (those that are mammals) have sensitive noses. A breath mint can't save us.

[Brent Bean]

Jdb5949

your right of course, I guess the only solution would be to take a helper into the yard with bad breath and give them a better target. :D

[hummingberd]

so guys, how are you getting bees in your veil? Is it because you don't wear a full suit?

scadsobees, thanks so much for your post. It's nice to know that I'm not the only one terrified of being stung! It's so hard to be patient and wait for the wisdom of experience to set in. I'm sure after a few seasons under my belt I'll be far less intimidated! By the way, all of these posts are very informative!

Thanks!

[Scott_K]

Kelbee,

I don't mind the intial pain from a sting but I do dislike the swelling and itching that follows for the next several days

I Have Multiple Sclerosis and get 20 stings a day for it voluntarily. After about 4 to 6 weeks most of the swelling and itching will stop. I got interested in Bees when I started Bee Venom Therapy.

[Brent Bean]

Hummingbird:

How are the bees getting inside my vale? Thats easy I forget to zip it shut.You know when your over getting stung, when it happens you just say the bees name and keep working.
( all my bees are named Dam-it or their-she-is)

[ December 19, 2006, 10:48 PM: Message edited by: Brent Bean ]

[Kelbee]

Scott K,
So at 140 stings per week, I only need to endure 600-800 stings then the swelling and itching will no longer occur?
Thanks, but I think I'll stick with my PPE.

[Brent Bean]

Scott:
Do you feel that the bee venom therapy is helping your MS?

[Beemaninsa]

Hummingbird. If you keep bees, yer gunna get stung. If you are skeered of gettin stung, take control of your fear and sting yourself a few times (preferably in a place with few nerves). Scrape the stinger out quickly. If you have not been stung before, be prepared for the unlikely event of a a severe reaction. Its no big deal. Once you understand bee stings, wear what you are comfortable with. Sometimes I wear full body armor, most of the time I wear a veil or jacket. I do not often work bees wihout a veil but to each his own. When I get stung I allow myself two cuss words per sting and smile to myself in the knowledge that I have just increased my torrerance to bee stings.

[tecumseh]

yea scott does bee sting therapy help with ms and was this therapy determined via a medical doctor?

just curious... cats are like, that don't you know?

[icdb]

When we started beekeeping a few years ago, we had no idea there was such a thing as a bee suit! We would just wear (and still do), 100% cotton white clothes. I wear long sleeve shirts, my husband wear a t-shirt - no rubber band on legs or arms. He had a veil and I wear a baseball cap (white) that covers all of my hair. Now I have a veil but I think the inside hard hat is wrong - cause the whole shebang keeps coming off! That said - when we got our very first bees I equated the entire hobby with yoga/meditation. I totally believe that if you are upset, angry, scared, wigged, etc - the bees absolutely pick this up.

My husband has a flower pot turned upside down near the hive. He drags it over in front of the hive and sits there for hours, just watching them (no veil, no gloves - just the white clothes thing). I'm not as brave! I'm back about 5 feet from the hive - but have learned that if I am calm, "centered" as they say, most of the time all is well. Yep - we've both been stung a couple of times- all times it was our own fault. I totally agree - you can hear how the bees are feeling. You can sense it. And I believe that they can understand that you are sensing them - or perhaps I'm delusional and need to go have a holiday beverage!

Hang in their Hummingbird - this is coming from a woman who was petrified of all bees 3 years ago - and now literally cries when we accidentally squish one - and yes, I still wear no gloves, a falling off veil and the white clothes thing! Regards, Karen

[Scott_K]

Kelbee

>So at 140 stings per week, I only need to endure 600-800 stings then the swelling and itching will no longer occur?<
you start out with 2 stings and work your way up to where I am at. You also start out numbing the spot with Ice before stinging it is not so bad.

To everyone I was diagnosed with MS in 2000. the last 3 years I was having to take multiple pain pills and muscle relaxers a week since starting the Bee Venom Therapy BVT I have not had to take a single pill and I am completely off of my meds. DR knows but didnt say much either way.

BVT has been used around the wold for 1000's of years

[Scott_K]

Been doing BVT for little over 3 months

[Kelbee]

Although he doesn't get stung intentionally (yet), my father-in-law has noted he gets a few days relief from his arthritis pain after getting stung by a wasp, honeybee, or other hymenoptera. I'm glad you (Scott K) have found a way to manage your MS pain.