Hive Box Measurements and Names

[longarm]

I have what I believe are "deeps" and "Westerns".
The deep boxes are 9 5/8" on a side and the frame sidebars are 1/2" shorter at 9 1/8".

The Westerns are 6 5/8" on a side and the frame sidebars are 6 1/4". So far so good?

I also have a number of boxes that measure 7 5/8" on a side and the frame sidebars for them are 7 1/4". What are these boxes called? Mediums?

[MichelleB]

Longarm,

They're called everything from "Semi-Deeps" to 3/4 deeps...that's what I'll be running from here on out (8-frame).

Mediums are the 6 5/8s.

I've got custom frames on order with Snow Peak Apiaries for the semi-deep equipment--Western Bee Supply in Montana also keeps semi-deep gear in stock.

There are a few threads about this size box--it never really took off as a format, but many people like the compromise between the medium and deep.

[NW IN Beekeeper]

[..."deeps"...The deep boxes are 9 5/8" on a side and the frame sidebars are 1/2" shorter at 9 1/8".

Thats correct, a standard landstroth deep.

[The Westerns are 6 5/8" on a side and the frame sidebars are 6 1/4". So far so good?]

These are known as Langstroth Medium or an Illinois.

[I also have a number of boxes that measure 7 5/8" on a side and the frame sidebars for them are 7 1/4". What are these boxes called? Mediums?]

Someone else is going to have to help me out, I can't place a name on these? Maybe they're custom, I know there isn't many places that are going to have exact foundation for those.

-Jeff

[ February 06, 2007, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: NW IN Beekeeper ]

[longarm]

My confusion deepens.

Reading the Dadant published First Lessons in Beekeeping they list the 9 5/8" box (9 1/8" frame) as a "full depth super". OK.. we call it a 'deep'. Again.. so far so good.

The next size down is the 6 5/8" box (6 1/4" frame) which they call " a Dadant depth super." This is what I have been calling a Western largely because the supply house I bought the frames from (GloryBee) lists them that way in their catalogs and online. Dadant goes on to say that, "this super is also known as a shallow super." OK.. getting wierder.

Next down is the 5 11/16" box (5 3/8" frame) which they ALSO call " the Shallow super.". Great.

Their final listing is for a 4 13/16" (4 1/2" frame) for comb honey.

And while I'm at it.. why call a 'deep' a 'super' in the first place?

[odfrank]

Don't forget about the Langstroth Jumbo frame at 11 1/4" deep, with 1 3/8" spacing or the Dadant Jumbo 11 1/4" deep with 1 1/2" spacing.

[NW IN Beekeeper]

This wasn't a contest to see who can name the most frames and their associated sizes, he had a specific question, lets try to answer it.

[longarm]

Thanks NW IN BeeKeeper but I half meant the thread in fun. Actually it would be interesting to see how many names and sizes folks could come up with.
Was looking at gear/hives today with Wade and we had difficulty coming to terms on what we were looking at. I have noticed this with other beekeeping friends too. So I got to thinking.. how could all these nice folks be so wrong?! tongue.gif

[Panhandle Bee man]

9 5/8 = Deeps
7 5/8 = Western, or 3/4 Deeps
6 5/8 = mediums, or Illinois
5 11/16 = shallow
4 13/16 = comb, or section

[iddee]

>>>>And while I'm at it.. why call a 'deep' a 'super' in the first place?<<<<

Many commercial beeks use nothing else. Hive bodies, supers, all the same. Better to get 18 quarts of honey from extracting 10 frames than to get 10 quarts from the same extracting time.

[Michael Bush]

I'm not aware of an official name for the 7 5/8" boxes. I first saw them available from Western Bee Supply. Now I see several others offering them.

Here's a list of sizes, names and weights full of honey:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#lighterboxes

[shawnwri]

They are called supers from the process of superimposing or covering the brood

[wade]

Yeah I sure wasn't any help. You know somebody else needs to get involved when you hold 1 "3/4 deep" sidebar in the left hand and call it a western, hold 1 "3/4 deep" sidebar in the right hand and call it a deep, then put them side by side and realize its the same size. :eek:

I'm glad you got to the bottom of it longarm.

Speaking of which, around here we call a "western" the 6 5/8" size, which others will call an Illinois super or medium, and the western somewhere else is the 3/4 deep. :confused: I've learned to not use the term "western" on this forum.

[MichelleB]

I've seen both 7 5/8 and 6 5/8 called "Westerns". Maddening, huh? I agree with Wade that it's too confusing a term to use.

Longarm, remember the thread on our Oregon board about the boxes I purchased in December? There's a discussion about the 7 5/8 size there.

I've only heard the term "Illinois" used to describe 6 5/8 boxes--which, far as I know, are most widely recognized as "mediums".

[ February 07, 2007, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Lupine ]

[longarm]

Thanks Lupine - I'll check it out.

Been assembling them today. Could be a useful size for me. What about as half of the overwintered hive, the other half being a 'deep'?

Wade, I am putting a semi-deep together today for the top half of the 'willow hive', to replace the medium/Illinois currently on it. Yesterday we left 1 frame of partially drawn comb in that medium/Illinois, I think. Anyway I'll try starter strips in all 10 frames to give the girls a guide. Should be on in a day or 2 after the paint dries.

[MichelleB]

Longarm,

I'm new at this, but I think that it makes sense to have uniform brood boxes (all one size). I'm taking it a step further by using 8-frame semi-deeps for brood AND surplus supers. Makes frame manipulations easier, etc.

Where'd you get your semi-deeps, by the way, and what prompted your decision to purchase this size?

[wade]

That sounds like a good plan longarm, whatever you want to try. But I agree with Lupine. Ultimately things are easier if everything is the same size. But certainly its an advantage to have the boxes on a particular hive the same size, so you can move frames up or down if you want. Beekeepers that use deeps for brood and mediums for honey have a particular reason for doing it that way and I think usually excluders are an important part of that. I'm not making a right or wrong statement, other than to say a person should have a good reason for what they're doing.

[Michael Palmer]

>Beekeepers that use deeps for brood and mediums for honey have a particular reason for doing it that way and I think usually excluders are an important part of that.


Well, I don't know about the excluder reason...I don't use them. I use deeps for brood chambers, because I feel the queen prefers to lay in larger combs. To me, two deeps are better than three mediums.

And, I use mediums(mostly)for honey supers. I do have a few pallets of deep honey supers that always seem to get put on last...way up on top. That often puts them head high, or higher. Did you ever take down deeps full of honey, when they're stacked up like that? Stretches your insides out pretty good. That's why I use mediums for honey, and leave the deeps for brood. So, my reasoning is a bit different than above. Works for me.

[longarm]

Huh. Why is it then that I see so many (albeit commercial) hives going through winter as 1 deep and 1 medium? (In fact the 'willow hive' as well.) Still I get your point.. makes sense for wanting to swap individual frames. Could you elaborate on this though:
"Beekeepers that use deeps for brood and mediums for honey have a particular reason for doing it that way and I think usually excluders are an important part of that."

Lupine,
I was given maybe 15 boxes of semi-deeps. I'm kind of scratching my head as to how to use them. How many do you use per colony as brood boxes?
I like the idea of using them as honey supers.. but I have no foundation for them and am trying to use up what I have here (medium foundation) before buying any new stuff. That's why I thought I would cut that into starter strips and insert into the semi-deeps for brood. I'm a little leery of extracting such a large, foundationless frame.. never tried it. Don't they fall apart in the extractor?
Dan

[NW IN Beekeeper]

[I was given maybe 15 boxes of semi-deeps. I'm kind of scratching my head as to how to use them. ]

IMO-
Put them on the table saw and wack them down to 6-5/8 mediums. Then your confusion is limited to just deeps and mediums. (I'd do the same thing to the deeps too - but I'm one of the mediums only supporters).

-Jeff

[longarm]

Hi Jeff,
Well.. the project went another way. I waxed in starter strips which extend down in the frame about 1/3 of the way. Then I started looking at this wire embedder I have never used.. so I put brass eyes in all the sidebar holes and wired the frames, then embedded the wire in the starter strip. Only got 1 box done so far..
Anyway when I get them done I'll use these as honey supers. Obviously they will need to be drawn and all that but you have to start somewhere and now I feel pretty confident that these will make it through extraction.
I think it's mostly the beer.. but it's a pretty good time!

[Michael Palmer]

>Huh. Why is it then that I see so many (albeit commercial) hives going through winter as 1 deep and 1 medium?

The commercials I know that use this configuration are migratory. They travel to FL or SC. They use 1 deep and 1 medium for two reasons. First, they take up less room, and are lighter than two deeps. So, they can fit more hives on the truck. Second, the bees in the south don't have such an explosive buildup as we do in the nortn, and don't need as much winter feed. Also, with one medium on top, when the flow starts, there is less room in the broodnest, so more honey woll go in the supers. With a deep on top, more honey will be in the broodnest...which the bees don't really need, and it just adds weight to the load going back north.

[wade]

<"Beekeepers that use deeps for brood and mediums for honey have a particular reason for doing it that way and I think usually excluders are an important part of that.">

I spoke out of turn by suggesting motives for others. I've never understood why keepers around here keep brood in deeps but sticka medium full of honey on top for the Winter- knowing that brood will get in there. But that's what I see, and Michael Palmer gave a good explanation. But even backyarders around here do that. Add an excluder during the flow and it makes sense- to me.

I put the western on the willow hive because I'm personally going to all mediums. I'd hoped the colony would quickly finish drawing out those frames and I'd get back a box full of drawn NC comb.

[MichelleB]

Longarm,

Should you decide you don't like the semi-deep format, please contact me before you ditch them or cut them down. I'll buy them from you.

[longarm]

Lupine,
Will do.