"The Extractor" for Bee Stings

[Sherpa1]

Who has used a device called "The Extractor" for bee stings? Was it effective in removing bee venom? Thanks.

[magnet-man]

Recent reseach say get the stinger out as fast as possible. It does not matter if you grap or scrape the stinger. Speed is the main factor for reducing the effect. Nothing will extract vennon after it is in your flesh.

[Tom Chaudoir]

This thing (http://www.mpja.com/productview.asp?product=0041+TL) looks like it would work just as well. You push the plunger in to compress the spring. When you push the button, it sucks. Just leave the tip in your what-not drawer and put the whole end of the tube over the sting.

Still, you would have to keep the thing nearby and get it when needed. My fingernails are always on hand. smile.gif

[Jim Fischer]

Actually, the most recent research says
that at least 90% of the venom sac contents
are "delivered" to the victim within 20 seconds.

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/8182223?src=emed_ckb_ref_0

So, unless you are wearing that ungainly-looking
gizmo in a holster on your belt, and are able
to, within the first few seconds:

1) Put down the frame or box you are holding
(carefully now - this is not a time to
alarm more bees, is it?)

2) Remove the stinger (quicker is better)

3) Get out the "Extractor" gizmo

4) Cock it into "firing mode"

5) Apply it to the point where you were stung.

6) Pull the trigger (or whatever)

You likely are going to get just as much
venom into you either way, and it does not
just sit there directly under the stinger
waiting to be removed by suction. It moves
just as fast as the blood in your capillaries
moves.

How fast? The typical speed from the thoracic
aorta to the femoral artery runs about 74 mm/sec,
and the flow speed from the abdominal aorta to
the popliteal artery averages 76 mm/sec. Thats
the "main highways", so the speed through the
tiny passages would be somewhat slower, but
not a whole lot, if one's bloodstream is to
remain free of air-bubbles.

But not to worry, we've been looking at this
whole problem of stings for a while, and we
are now offering to dealers "Fischer's Sting Stuff" (TM),
which takes care of the pain, and some (not all!)
of the localized swelling. We expect the usual
major dealers to seriously consider putting it in
their 2007 catalogs.

I intend to be very forgetful, and leave a few
bottles lying about the apiary at EAS 2006 (In
Georgia) for people to use if (or should I say
"when"?) they get stung, so I hope that the
product will get some good "buzz".

The trick with bee stings (or any type of
venom) is to neutralize the proteins that
cause the acute pain and burning sensation
associated with the sting. This stuff does
that, and does it better than anything else
currently available, including the various
home remedies mentioned here on BeeSource
(Yeah, we tested them all, just to be sure.)

It will also come in a handy pocket-sized
4oz bottle with a spray top, so one can
address the problem with one hand. You
don't have to drop that frame, you don't
have to rush to try to remove the stinger.
Just point and shoot (Or should I say
"Let Us Spray"?) and feel much
better in seconds, so you can get back to
work.

Proteins are tricky little beasties, so I
doubt that the makers of the other products
currently offered have looked at the actual
impact their stuff has on the proteins that
make a bee sting "sting". I know that we
had to go trudge around to bio-chem departments
here and there just to get access to the
equipment that lets one verify what, if
anything happens to specific proteins when
they encounter various substances.

The primary intent for "Sting Stuff"
was to ease the acute pain of a few folks we know
who sting themselves to relieve their arthritis
symptoms, but it works fine for beekeepers too.

I think something like the "Extractor" would
be better for a snakebite than the usual
snakebite kit rubber bulb, but I can't see
how it could fully neutralize a bee sting unless
it VERY quickly drew out as much or more blood
as one's doctor would draw for a typical "blood
test". Bee sting venom gets into the local
area very quickly, and spreads around a bit,
which is why a biochemical solution would be
superior to a mechanical one. Gotta go chase
down those little proteins where they have bonded.

So, we shall see...

[Sherpa1]

Jim,
Thanks for all the research in this area. My question regarding "Sting Stuff" is how would this topical spray get to the sting venom to neutralize it if the venom has been injected into the subcutaneous area? Does it diffuse into the subcutaneous area through the prick in the skin made by the stinger?

[power napper]

Way to go Jim!

[Jim Fischer]

> Does it diffuse into the subcutaneous area
> through the prick in the skin made by the stinger?

Yes, but more would be absorbed through the
skin itself than would get in through such
a tiny hole. The effect is very quick, so
I'm forced to conclude that getting some
right where the stinger was is important.
(I guess I should test this, and cover the
actual stinger hole with a small piece of
tape or something.)

[JZD]

So where does one get this sting stuff?

[Jim Fischer]

> So where does one get this sting stuff?

We don't know which dealers will be carrying
it as yet, and we have yet to manufacture
"production quantities".

[jim b]

Jim-
If only you could apply the same principles to other venoms, such as Funnel Web, Cobra, fer de lance, etc. ;)

-j

[Tom Chaudoir]

Please forgive my picking of nits for a moment.


1) Put down the frame or box you are holding
(carefully now - this is not a time to
alarm more bees, is it?)

2) Remove the stinger (quicker is better)

3) Get out the "Extractor" gizmo

4) Cock it into "firing mode"

5) Apply it to the point where you were stung.

6) Pull the trigger (or whatever)
I don't know about the extractor gadget. The thing that I linked to is spring loaded. It can stay "cocked". So the steps are:

1) Remove stinger.
2) Position device.
3) Push button.


It will also come in a handy pocket-sized
4oz bottle with a spray top, so one can
address the problem with one hand. You
don't have to drop that frame, you don't
have to rush to try to remove the stinger.
Just point and shoot (Or should I say
"Let Us Spray"?) and feel much
better in seconds, so you can get back to
work. Wait. The stinger isn't static like an arrow or a dart. The hard pointy part is really 3 components. There's a central shaft and 2 sliding barbed parts at the outside. Those slide back and forth to burrow deeper after the bee is gone. The muscles to move those parts remain, as well as the muscle to pump out the venom sack. Removing all that equipment ASAP has to be a good thing, and it's easy to do. You might not want to advise folks to leave it all pumping and spritz your product on top.


How fast? The typical speed from the thoracic
aorta to the femoral artery runs about 74 mm/sec,
and the flow speed from the abdominal aorta to
the popliteal artery averages 76 mm/sec. Thats
the "main highways", so the speed through the
tiny passages would be somewhat slower, but
not a whole lot, if one's bloodstream is to
remain free of air-bubbles. Now that's just medical sounding stuff. I'm not dazzled. Boiled down it says that if I get stung in the heart (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=8636) , the venom will reach my leg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femoral_artery) pretty danged soon. I have no idea what the "air-bubbles" thing is all about.


The trick with bee stings (or any type of
venom) is to neutralize the proteins that
cause the acute pain and burning sensation
associated with the sting. Is that what the advertisement is going to say? What if a potential beek reads that? I get stung. It hurts a little, and teaches me what not to do. Is the pain acute (http://webster.com/dictionary/acute) ? Perhaps so, but that word is widely misunderstood.

Burning sensaion? Still not scared, but that might turn people away from ever starting. I've never had a "burning sensation" but it might sell.

How about just being honest? Tell folks that you have a spray that should make stings hurt less. I'd buy that.

[Jim Fischer]

> You might not want to advise folks to leave
> it all pumping and spritz your product on top.

We do advise folks to remove the stinger, of course.
What I said was that one does not have to rush
to remove it.

> I'm not dazzled.

The intent was to put some metrics on the
speed with which your blood circulation moves
the venom away from the sting site, where the
"Extractor" might have been able to remove it.

> Is that what the advertisement is going to say?

No, I doubt it.
The promotional copy in beekeeping catalogs
needs to be very laid back, as no one would
want to over-state either the pain associated
with a sting, or the impact of the product.
As for the ads, we have quite a track record of
simply-worded, and in some cases, funny ads:
http://bee-quick.com/pix/

> What if a potential beek reads that? I get
> stung. It hurts a little,

Funny... many stings hurt many beekeepers
quite a bit. Even after more than a decade, I
still swear at least one sting out of four.

> and teaches me what not to do.

Strange - if this were an accurate statement,
there would be some number of beekeepers who
would never get stung, as they have
learned "what not to do". As there are no
such beekeepers, it follows that one can still
get stung even when doing everything right.

> Is the pain acute ? Perhaps so, but
> that word is widely misunderstood.

OK, maybe you misunderstood it. So far,
I have not had anyone else question the use of
the word "acute", so I have to assume that they
know what it means in terms of pain (short-term,
rather than long-term).

> How about just being honest?

I'm sorry, but no one has ever accused me of
being less than honest before, and I'm not about
to discuss a point that is phrased as an
accusation.

Rather than trying to pound on me, why not add
some value with your highly-developed critical
thinking skills, and annotate the "Bee News
Online" stories to debunk some of the more
wild-eyed reports about things like AHB? The
unsophisticated reader of your site can take away
a very negative impression, enough to turn them
into one of those "problem neighbors" demanding
that hives be removed and beekeeping "bans" be
imposed.

[Sundance]

Sounds like a rational product Jim,
I'll give it a go.

[rache]

awesome info, jim. but "let us spray"? oh, dude. for shame.

i think that the majority of people (at least the majority that i come in contact with, and ain't all of 'em rocket surgeons, to be sure...) have come to use the term "acute" to denote "really really bad" rather than "as opposed to chronic." (come to think of it, plenty of people have come to use the word "chronic" for something else entirely, as well.) obviously, we beekeepers are a highly superior people, and would know better, but for mass product labeling, i'd have to agree with tom.

[Tom Chaudoir]

> How about just being honest? Yeah. That could have been worded better. Sorry.


.....and annotate the "Bee News
Online" stories to debunk some of the more
wild-eyed reports about things like AHB? The
unsophisticated reader of your site can take away
a very negative impression..... Bulls eye. I had high hopes for that blog, but soon became discouraged. The goal was to filter for stories directly related to bees and beeks. The reality is that bad news gets press. I suppose that I could have renamed it "Happy Bee News" and filtered for positive content only. Right now I'm not updating it, and have removed the link from my sig. It might come back in some form.


The promotional copy in beekeeping catalogs
needs to be very laid back, as no one would
want to over-state either the pain associated
with a sting, or the impact of the product. Cool.I look forward to trying it.

How about a gadget that sucks the sting and applys a spritz of Sting Stuff? Just a thought.

[Jim Fischer]

> How about a gadget that sucks the sting and applys > a spritz of Sting Stuff?

No way, such a device would both suck and blow! smile.gif

Sorry, I can't resist when someone tees them
up so nice and pretty for me.

[JKJ]

Who has used a device called "The Extractor" for bee stings? Was it effective in removing bee venom? Thanks. I've been using these for several years now, for yellowjacket, wasp, and more recently, honey bee. I wrote about this in detail in another forum, but the bottom line for me is it works very well. It almost instantly removes any pain and reduces swelling.

For example, I always have a reaction to yellowjacket - I was stung once on my hand and my arm swelled to my shoulder. The last few times I've been stung with yellowjacket I used the Extractor and had only a very small circle of mild swelling.

It's great for kids as well, since it usually removes the pain quickly.

I keep one on the tractor, one in the bee kit, one in the house, etc. BTW, I buy them at Walmart in the camping section.

JKJ