Small cell starter strips

[IndianaHoney]

I have been thinking about buying some small cell starter strips from Pegjam. If I buy these and put them in with bees that have been raised in 5.4mm cells, what size will the remainder of the comb be?

[Sport]

OK, what about starting with package bees? Can I assume that they've been raised in 5.4mm cells?

[Ruben]

>what size will the remainder of the comb be?

Most of the time they say first time will be 5.1mm, I got lucky and got 4.9 on the first go.


>Can I assume that they've been raised in 5.4mm cells?

Yes

[Sport]

So going with a starter strip is still the way to go.

[Ruben]

>So going with a starter strip is still the way to go.

I like it, you can cut one piece of foundation with a pizza cutter and have enough for 10 frames instead of using one sheet per frame which means a 10th of the cost. the bees draw it out very nice, there are some pictures on the link below. I am going to wire my super frames so they won't come apart in the extractor but I did not use wire on the hive bodies. MB even uses no foundation at all, I have not tried it but I think they use a popsickle stick for them to start from.

[GeeBeeNC]

I have been using pieces of 5.4 wax for starter strips for regressing with good success.

[flathead]

I am building frames with a wooden starter strip. I rip 1/8" strips from my left over 1 by material.

I also have some wired 4.9 foundation but I could not figure out how to make strips. I mean the one with the crimped ears(from the top of the sheet) would work but the others made from the sheet would be just sitting in the wedge slot. Maybe anchor with wax?

You can staple the wooden strips into the wedge top bars for a solid connection. I haven't tried popsickle sticks but they are near the same thickness as what I use.

http://zacharyfarmsllc.com/starter%20strips.htm

Let the regressing begin.

[NW IN Beekeeper]

[Maybe anchor with wax?]

That's how its done.

-Jeff

[Michael Bush]

Wax tube fastener:

http://www.dadant.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=231

http://go.netgrab.com/secure/kelleystore/asp/product.asp?product=102

Look at item number 165

[sierrabees]

I am using the wedge from a comercial frame. I sand the wedge on a belt sander so it comes to a sharp edge on one side, dip in in beeswax, and staple it on edge with the sharp part is centered. Don't know if it will work but I'll soon find out.

[snoopybee]

From my limited experience, the sharp edges seem to work best. The bees started comb on the sharp edge of the top frame of some where the wooden strip was not sharpened. Rubbing the edge of the strip with beeswax (which I neglected to do! I've made a multitude of mistakes in a very short time.) would probably correct the problem. In any case they build beautiful comb around 5.1mm from starter strips (wax or wood) if coming from a standard large cell package.

[Black Creek]

i tried the popsicle stick idea on a few frames. just stuck a couple in the top bar, broke one stick to fill the extra space and just poured liquid wax on them to hold them in. They were outside frames, so they took longer to start on them, but the girls built beautiful straight comb. I'll prolly use up the rest of the foundation i have as starter strips, but after that, i'm planning on just buying more popsicles !

[NW IN Beekeeper]

[I tried the popsicle stick idea...i'm planning on just buying more popsicles!]

I like the idea of multiple utility of items.
Groved top bars give me a choice of foundation or using popsicle sticks.
I have used 45 degree "V" top bars, but they can not be easily converted for use with foundation/pierco. Groved bars however can be converted to foundationless with the popsicle sticks. Very slick. (Plus they need less wax than 45' "V"'s!)

That's the way I'll go for now on.

-Jeff

[naturebee]

-- If I buy these and put them in with bees that have been raised in 5.4mm cells, what size will the remainder of the comb be?--(IH)

--So going with a starter strip is still the way to go.--(Sp)


FWIW,

I know that starter strips have been the “fad” lately.

I have nothing against starter strips, but they are just NOT effective for regressing a colony.

I see that some have reported ‘lucky success’ with starter strips drawing 4.9 on the first try, (please send pics) but this is highly dependant on the comb the bees were previously raised on.

I’ve been regressed since 2001 and on these lists long enough to hear the many many reports of starter strips failing to encourage the bees to draw smaller cells.

A look back on the records of organic beekeepers and beesource lists show the starter strip movement coming on the scene around 2003. Also, strangely enough were included discussions from these starter strip proponents were many comments of the difficulty in regressing to 4.9 and the need to use perma-comb dipped in wax to FORCE the bees down.

The starter strip the fad is basically a run away train with many jumping on the bandwagon giving it undue creditability by way of popularity rather than by it’s effectiveness in regressing bees.

[Bryanaw40]

Very interesting. I am starting 4 hives with 4, five frame nucs (all small cell bees)in the spring and am considering using just starter strips or popcicle sticks as described in this thread.

Does anyone that has experience with this method know how this approach affects production in the first year? After making their own foundation and comb, will they have time to store any surplus honey and more importantly, will they have enough honey to get them through their first Souteast Michigan winter?
bryan & Judy
Ortonville, MI

[ February 04, 2007, 10:50 AM: Message edited by: Bryanaw40 ]

[Bryanaw40]

Another question: If one intends to use mechanical extraction, can wires be installed and will be bees build their foundation and comb OK or will the wires be a problem?

Bryan & Judy
Ortonville, MI

[wade]

Sounding like a broken record - using starter strips is about the same as going foundationless. Probably quite a bit better than the regular large cell, certainly better in subsequent years if you keep switchig out the comb and support the SC notion. But its distinctly different from SC.

[Patrick Scannell]

I use about a 2.25" strip of foundation, embedded on the top 2 wires of a medium frame.

The bees fill in the rest as if I used a full sheet of foundation, and extraction is not a problem.

[Michael Bush]

>Another question: If one intends to use mechanical extraction, can wires be installed

Yes. I don't, but they can.

> and will be bees build their foundation and comb OK

Yes.

> or will the wires be a problem?

No.

[Mike Gillmore]

>> starter strips.... are just NOT effective for regressing a colony.

>> I see that some have reported ‘lucky success’ with starter strips drawing 4.9 on the first try,

>> I’ve been regressed since 2001

Did your bees regress to 4.9 on the first try?
What was your method of regression? If there is a better way, I'm all ears.

[naturebee]

--Did your bees regress to 4.9 on the first try?
What was your method of regression? If there is a better way, I'm all ears.--(MG)

Hello Mike,

The method since well before I started in 2001 was to shake them onto small cell foundation. I know that starter strips / foundationless is the fad, but I feel great grief when I see it being advised for regressing bees, because I know the difficulties in regressing bees, and that in MOST cases, they need FORCED down.

When I shook down in 2001 onto small cell foundation, the bees drew comb at about 5.1 mm, then 4.9 the second time. A few months after each step down, I superceded the queen. This accelerates the process of regressing.

For shakedowns:
The method that I like is to remove 2 frames with bees from the hive being regressed. 1 frame with queen and brood, and 1 frame with abundant eggs /young larva.

Place the frames in the center positions of a single deep with 4.9 on each side, and shake tge colony of bees into the hive with new foundation.

The two large cell frames then get rotated to the outside position as the colony expands, and these larger cell frames culled out when brood hatches out.

For increases:
I wait to see queencells, then I place 2 frames with queen in a hive body and switch positions, and let the field bees draw out the foundation and mother colony gets the cells.

[Mike Gillmore]

>> A few months after each step down, I superceded the queen. This accelerates the process of regressing.

That's interesting. How does queen replacement impact the speed of regression?


>> For shakedowns: ... Place the frames in the center positions of a single deep with 4.9 on each side ..

Could this also be accomplished using 5 frame nucs and rotating frames out?

[Craig W.]

I started my packaged bee with those same starter strips and they are doing good.