From: "deelusbybeekeeper" <deelusbybeekeeper@excelonline.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 21:22:04 -0700
To: <BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: How do you tell diseases apart

Robert wrote:
> There are no reports of resistant foulbrood yet, but it took over 40 years on your side
> of the Atlantic, so we've time yet. Has anyone any experience of using shakedowns
> to treat foulbrood?

Reply:
Robert, since Chris has already mentioned treatments not working for the EFB
in UK and shakedowns starting I guess 40 years went by rather quickly in
your neck of the woods.

You mention has anyone any experience of using shakedowns to treat
foulbrood, to which I now say and remind all here. I have stated numerous
times: We could hold our colonies with parasitic mites on 5.0mm-5.1mm
foundation sizing. The colonies would live, but we could not make a living
with them and the secondary diseases from the stress of the mites was doing
us in during La Nina (drought) years. We could not sustain building the
colonies up for 2-3 years during the good years of El Nino (good rain years)
only to fall back with them on La Nina years of drought.

We had to do something about the secondary diseases and get back to
production again as we are commercial beekeepers. We did this with "full
old-fashioned shakedowns" like "old AFB shakedowns" and restarted our bees
then the next size lower on 4.9mm top tolerance foundation.

It Solved our problems of secondry diseases out of control for mass "PMS"
(all foul broods lumped into one big Parasitic Mite #@$% mess) and we have
never used propolis patties (instead of TM patties) since for any diseases
within our colonies. Actually phased out of patties in about 1994-1995
thereabouts.

We just pull any diseased frames and remelt under water and press and
salvage the wax and remake into new 4.9mm foundation. Our secondary disease
rate for all diseases lumped together now runs about 1%-2% and we are quite
happy with that. In actuality we pull the few frames found in the beginning,
as every colony worked, even during honey season has the brood looked at.
It's best to pull the first 1-2 or 2-3 frames in a colony when you first
find it, and replace with good newly drawnout frames when available, for the
queen to lay in anew, rather then wait until out of control and spreading
could occur to other colonies as honey flows wind down. If we do this and
pull 2-3 supers of frames per 300-400 colonies we are happy. We just remelt
and go on.
Normally it is frames that should have been culled anyway and just makes us
want to observe closer.

I know of no other way to handle, and doing it this way requires the usage
of NO dopes of anykind.

Sincerely,

Dee