From: "deelusbybeekeeper" <deelusbybeekeeper@excelonline.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:09:45 -0800
To: <BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Clean wax for Organic Production?

Hi to all on Biological Beekeeping:

Barry Wrote below---

> Hello Gene -
> Dee's
> suggestion of putting the foundation in a freezer first worked great. Once
> frozen, a little bending back and forth gets the wax falling off the plastic
> center sheet.

Reply:

Also for processing old combs too Barry! In the winter you can also bend
them and quickly bust the drawn old combs off the wax base. We don't got so
much extreme cold as you do though, so have to use the freezer method for
that too, in our area. Then once combs ae poped off the plastic base, you
simply process like slum for wax and press. We help others (locally in
assoc) do this, with our wax press, once they get the combs poped and ready.
Then we help them learn to make foundation (making foundatioin we teach to
anyone).

> John mentions about testing of wax and the smell of Dadant's foundation.
> I've wondered the same thing too. Does anyone know what foundation makers
> use to "clean" the wax so that it's always uniform in color? How do they get
> the chemicals out of it? And yes, what about that smell? Something must be
> added if they are taking wax from all different sources and always ending up
> with the same smelling wax. This is probably all a trade secret.

Reply:

You can read a lot about this in "Beeswax", production, harvesting,
processing and products, by Coggshall and Morse. You'd be suprised as to how
they actually get it commercially clean.

Who in the
> industry is testing the wax used in foundation to make sure it's clean?

Reply:

I think Dadant does testing and Root also. I think both are now (MPOV)
seperating wax received for residues and putting the worse into candle
making and the cleanest into foundation making. But still it is a spooky
subject to talk about and for independents that process? I don't think so.
Many cannot and many just don't want to know. Yet many friends are very
careful as to who they work with anymore for processing wax. I know that we
are. We are very careful as to who we process combs and slum for. If we know
or think they are using chemicals we refuse to do it. We do have limits as
to what we ourselves do! We don't mind the color or smell of old combs, as
long as it is that and not a chemical smell.

There is a distinct difference once you learn it. LIke animals in a barn the
old way and now the modern way. Somethimes too clean is a sign of covering
something, or use of chemicals to get it that way, and on top of that, it's
not natural. Animals that cannot take a little dirt, don't get sublethal
dosages of bacteria, viral, or fungal diseases always around us, to develop
immunities to combat them off. Bees are no different. Even nowadays doctors
are finally saying, children need to play in dirt so they don't get sick
when they get older. Too clean is wrong. So what is clean?

> Yet another element most beekeepers never think about and just assume what
> they are getting is a clean, pure product. If one of the plastic foundation
> makers would make a 4.9 size, wouldn't this be a good way to get around the
> clean wax issue?

Reply:

Maybe so for a while if wax is in extremely short supply and you are
extracting honey and collecting pollen, etc. But for organic production, I
don't know? For bees health in the long run I don't know? Plastics are petroleum products I thought? Don't they give off residues as they decompose? Also don't they absorbe contaminates? How do you reprocess the plastic frames without warping and having to replace? Why not just go wax base and wire from ground zero? Maybe lits labor intensive to change that way, but once done, it is done. Then to replace combs you merely remelt the frames and put in new foundation and go. I would imagine at the cost of plastic frames many are afraid to replace because they think about what it
has cost. but then what is the cost to human health to use?

Yet it is fast. Great for migratory I would imagine for those not in
production of hive products. But then do the fence walk and do both?
Pollenate fields with chemicals one day and then extract a few later? Is
this a safe practice?

Boy, I better stop for now. Thinking too much! Too many questions. Comments
on the above. It really needs to be talked about.

Chow for now

Dee