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From: "deelusbybeekeeper" <deelusbybeekeeper@excelonline.com>
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:10:46 -0700
To: <BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: Just what is Biological Beekeeping?
>Now bees.
You want to be an organic bee keeper. You have a hive on 5.2mm
>comb. You stop all methods of chemical control of pests and
disease. You now
>have an organic hive.
Reply:
A lot of what you say here
is revelent to what I have to look at. The above
is a start, but now I must think to real world to match the scenario
for
proposed rulemaking.
You stop all methods of chemical
control of pests and disease, being on a
chemical treadmil; and there is withdrawal to go through with
the bees to
reach the organic/biological stage. so making me think of this
step is good
and how to consider and incorporate. Then like preparing the
ground you must
prepare the nest where the bees are grown similar to plants in
the ground,
therefore combs mmust be changed to neturalize and decontaminate
like with
soil. So now I have another step to consider and point out to
the rulmaking
process.
>This hive
will die. You have to use biological methods
>to keep it alive. Through your work Dee, we have downsizing
to 4.9mm cell
>size. Feeding back honey that the bees have stored.
Reply:
This would also include pollen.
Also in rare instances propolis I would
imagine, in lieu of drugs. This is good Forrest!.
>Breeding
queens for
>shorter emergence time. Breed for grooming behavior. Physical
control of
>drone cells. Bottom screen boards. Proper ventilation. Very
important is the
>war going on under the microscope.
Reply:
This is good too Forrest! Many
beekeepers don't consider the internal
relationships bees have with necessary friendly mites, and bacteria,
fungi,
and beneficial virusis for a colony to survive and a natural
parent host
relationship. Just like people and other animals have white and
red blood
cells and internal micro/macro relationships with beneficial
bacteria for
food assimulation, so do bees.Every thing and all organisms must
be in
balance for a good biological/organic relationship to exist,
just like in
the ground feeding plants with nutrients/digestion.
>Hive preperation.
The hive can't be
>sterile. You have to have a certain amount of mites and diseases
to fight the
>war but at a level the bees can help fight and live with.
Now the ground is
>prepared.
Reply:
Yes Forrest, this would relate
to the above.
>The bees
will grow and prosper.
>One other important fact. In organic farming, you have to
be farming
>organically for a set amount of years before you can sell
your produce to
>the public as organic. Your land has to be purged of chemicals.
My question to
>others. What is this time frame with bees?
Reply:
Yes Forrest this is excellent
to, to get the mind going. I would imagine the
time frame with bees would be the time required to change out
residue
impregnated combs from years of treatments with Drugs (TM) and
chemicals
(residues), also essential oils and acids? Depending upon dissipation
if
possible here would dictate the time frame. Also a persons pocket
book would
dictate how fast the change over could be accomplished.
Yes there is much to think
about here relative to the situation.
>This is
not a perfect world. The bees are going to bring things into
the
>hive that are not organic. We have very little control over
this. When industry
>sets the standards for organic bees kept with biological
methods, certain
>tolerances have to be accepted.
Reply:
Good comments, zones cannot
be diagramed as bees forage in a circle and for
many miles and over many acres, from 100 yards to over 5 miles.
Yes we have
little control over this and one little patch, that the bees
probably won't
forage within the circle, should not be mandatorily considered
a detriment,
unless maybe during out of season availability, of say, natural
flora.
Interesting, Yes this area needs to be considered and not be
so hard rule!!!
Reply:
Forrest, what do you think
(others too!) for accountability and record
keeping of equipment, like tracking individual colonies and supers,
etc. A
paperwork nightmare? How do other livestock handlers keep track
of chickens,
cattle, etc. By movement of brand individually by a number? I
think too time
consuming and they would manage by movement/management of herd
as a whole
working unit. So should also be bees I would think? You work
the bees you
work the yard and record keep by yard rather than individual
colony or hive.
Also, what about limited disease
control? We are now experiencing less than
1%, but it took three years to get there! We can easily with
with cull and
destroy, but what about limited treatment with propolis and honey
mixture?
But then what allowed for?Still when we shook down, and then
culled
throughout the first year, it drastically reduced to under 10%
and with only
minor infractions, and by the second year to halve that again
again only
minor infractions, and by the third year to under 1% which we
consider
comparable to some foreign countries. But we do not burn!!! We
cull and melt
and retool the wax as a renewable resource with water bath, and
see no
trouble so doing so!
But then a hobbiest (1-49)
wouldn't go for organic certification because of
the costs of the certs/fees, it would take a sideline (50-299)
or larger
outfit (300 +) to fit the scenario of being overseen. But then
maybe not?
Also being talked about is
where to obtain clean wax base and organic stock
to work with and time frame for considering same clean and meeting
criteria
for being called organic. Comments!!!
There is more to go through
before I comment back. Mr Barry Birkey should be
receiving the material by snail mail shortly. Then it's a matter
of
preparing a url for all to read.
The comments and thoughts on
the topic, beekeepers need to think about
between now and fall, when formal requests and presentation will
be coming
out in the Federal Register for public comment. I imagine more
information
for consideration will be coming also to think about, that needs
to be made
aware to members of this discussion group also.
Until then I think it's good
to discuss and go over things and receive input
for key industry personnel working behind the scenes getting
things ready.
That way when the Federal Register hits the bee industry will
be ready to
talk and write. They might not like it, but then again, they
will need to
know in Washington DC that there is a concerned branch of our
industry out
here trying to go for biological/organic beekeeping. Willing
to call
representatives when necessary and pick up a pen when the time
comes for
comments.
Thanks for reading this! The
comments by all are great. I am forwarding to
others so they are aware we are discussing and working.
Dee
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