From: Erik Osterlund <honeybee@elgon.se>
Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 17:48:07 +0100
To: BiologicalBeekeeping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: cell size measurement

At 20.04 -0500 01-12-31, DeeALusby1@aol.com wrote:

"...>Rev Raylor says .... I found 4.94 cells to the inch diagonally, and 4.8
>horizontally. ...."

Dee comments:
.... early mills were made with
>foundation sold with what looks like to be some very small cells as
>referenced by the 4.8 horizontally and 4.94 to the diagonals.
>
>Well, this should get more comments going! Anyone with thoughts?

Ok, I'll give some thoughts. First I thank you for typing down all these
passages. They are interesting reading. It confirms my conclusion that few
if any besides Thomas Cowan was aware of the differences of the cell sizes
inside each and the same colony. they are here discussing averages
actually. This I think is important to remember. Because it means a whole
lot of brood cells normally should be smaller than this average, which
leads us to the size you and Ed have given your bees anyway.

Just a few comments on the quotations I have included above. It seems you
have understood the 4.8 and 4.94 figures given to be mm figures of the
sizes of the cells. But as I can read it, it is not, but the number of
cells in one inch. 4.94 cells to the inch gives the cell size 25.4/4.94 =
5.14 mm. 4.8 cells to the inch gives 25.4/4.8 = 5.29 mm.

A debate were apperantly going on wether the cell size should be 5 cells to
the inch (5.08 mm) or slightly bigger, about 4.85 cells to the inch (about
5.2 mm). And different foundation were made. In Europe already deabte were going on with enlarging. Cowan in England had found out 5 to the inch (5.08 mm) was the average. probably many who measured weren't aware of the fact Cowan pointed out, that cell size differed in the same colony, AND, very important the smallest cell sizes were in the middle for the brood. No awareness of this fact is seen in any of these passages we have seen quoted here. they are just discussing averages, maybe without even being aware of it. And when they measure a piece of natural built comb somewhere from the hive, if there is a lot of foundation given, it is verly likely they get a piece intended for honeystorage, some small extra comb or burr comb or
something similar in the edges of the colony or the frames. Such sizes they
then get will be at the most 5.4 mm, many around 5.2 mm, which are the
sizes discussed here. While at the same time, which we saw by Cowan, the
brood cell sizes often were below 5.0 mm, even down to 4.7.

Have to share an interesting note from today. I talked to my NOrwegian
friend today. he had just returned from two weeks holiday in Thailand,
living in a hut of Palm leaf at a beach. One day he searched his way to a
beekeeper, who sold cut comb honey. He used no foundation. The cut comb
held 5.2-5.3 in cell size. He used some type of Italian bees according the
the color of the bees. And he used no chemicals to fight anything,
including varroa mites. he had some colonies dying off, yes, but no
alarming number of them, and he made splits as normal to get new colonies.

Now with the knowledge of Cowan and the differences of cell sizes he saw,
and the differences of cell sizes I saw with the three swarms at your place
confirming Cowan 4.67 - 5.4 mm (Cowan 4.73 - 5.36), it's not hard to guess
the cell sizes for the brood with this beekeeper in southern Thailand, in
the middle of varroa land, for his Italian bees were below 5.0 mm, when
honey storage combs were 5.2 - 5.3. Unfortunately ha hadn't the possibility
to measure any brood comb at this visit. Not I think this information
anyhow is interesting enough.

Erik