From: "David Eyre" <admin@beeworks.com>
Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2001 14:57:56 -0800
To: BiologicalBeekeeping@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Observation

A Happy New Year to all.
As my name was foremost in Barry's post of 31st Dec. Re: Observations, I
believe it confers on me the right to comment, and hopefully to clear one
or two points. So, without rancor, tension, or disrespect to any one on
this list please allow me the following observations.

Before I joined this list I read as much as I could from all the
postings since it's start up. Since joining I have read with interest
every post and even now I am still lost. I have read HOW to regress bees,
taking them from a standard that I have accepted for 50 years, down to a
cell size I had never heard of until recently. I even had someone kindly
send me a URL allowing me more insights into HOW; all I need now is for
someone to explain WHY. I know the Lusbys, ideas, due to a post received
today, but I am still totally lost as to WHY.

I admitted to some skepticism the other day, they have not been changed
yet. By reducing cell size makes the bees less susceptible to the ravages
of Varroa other pathogens and disease? Why? This implies some major
change to the bees, chemical makeup as Varroa's trigger is chemical or
pheromone based, and sizing does this? Correct? Possibly the Lusbys,
queen rearing has in fact developed a Varroa resistant bee and down
sizing is being credited with the results they have found?

With all science, you answer one question and raise two others.
What about the other problems regarding this downsizing? Presumably bee
space needs to be changed. As the hive I designed took years to perfect I
would suggest another round of re-design to correct for different sized
bees. How about Queen excluders? I would assume that even those would
have to be adjusted?

In our particular case, apart from all the work to convert, I would also
have to convert all my customers and contacts, as our bees would then not
work under their hive conditions. Not an easy assimilation at all.

There was a statement regarding hive size that fails to gel, that
regressed bees will need more brood space! If you have reduced the size
of cells, and the size of the queen, it does not follow that the queen
will lay more eggs. Surely that feature is dependent on lots of other
factors, and one being, a smaller queen would have less egg capacity not
more!

Questions, questions and yet even more questions. There is in bee
keeping a serious desire to seek the silver bullet, perhaps to the extent
of jumping on the latest bandwagon without considering all possible
facets. Criticisms? Perhaps, all I know is that without a lot more
answers it will be a difficult up hill battle to convert disciples to the
new religion. For example the latest buzz word, pardon the pun,
hygienic, bees, the thinking that hygienic bees will pull out dead
larvae killed by Varroa, saving the hive. Hardly, from my limited
experience Varroa in its effect does not kill larvae. Initially it
damages the larvae to the point of weakening the workers, by the time it
has enough Varroa in each cell to kill larvae the hive is almost dead
anyway. This is not to say that the search for hygienic bees is a waste
of time, but will have to be combined with other factors to have benefit.

This leads me to the other point made by Barry, discussion of chemicals.
I do not like chemicals anymore than is necessary, and the only reason I
brought them into that discussion was because Dee asked the question of
what controls I was using. Up to that point I was feeling quite proud of
myself, after all I had stopped using Terramycin 5 years ago. Recently I
managed to stop the need for Fumigil B having cleared Nosema out
completely, we have eliminated tracheal mites by breeding, so reducing
our need for Formic acid. In addition, I formulated an ongoing treatment
to reduce the effects of Varroa on our hives, maybe leading this year to
the elimination of Apistan completely. Not a bad record, to date. Having
said all that, until I am totally sure that regression is the way to go,
you will have to pardon me, there is a lot riding on my bees and to jump
from the frying pan into this particular fire will require the need of a
fireproof suit.

So, finally I would suggest publication of WHY might be a good idea,
this would allow the skeptics amongst us the chance of extracting the
information we require and getting up to speed on the new thinking.
Please, do not tell me to jump off the cliff; justifying it by telling me
there is a good view to the left on the way down! Please let us lighten
up a bit; I am prepared to be taught.

Regards to all
Dave E